Zoo Pride 2025

Please note that this transcript is automatically generated and contains many inaccuracies

Disclaimer

Announcer: The Zooier Than Thou Podcast contains adult concepts and language and is intended for a mature audience. So if people would be offended by the idea of you seeing a pub hood in public, maybe this one isn’t for you quite yet. Even if those people who would be offended by the pub hood thing are done.

Theme Song

Kynophile: Hey, what can I say?

You’ve got me howlin’ at the moon!

Whoa, don’t you know that love is wild when you’re a zoo?

We’re Zooier Than Thou!

Oh yeah!

Intro

Tarro: Hello and welcome to Zooier Than Thou, the podcast about zoosexuality and other things. Also, I’m taro taking a break from leveraging through your trash to record this episode.

Steeeve: And I am Steve and insert funny joke here. Ha ha ha.

Tarro: I really thought you were gonna make a joke there.

Steeeve: Think again. I just read it. I just, I’m a robot that reads lines. That’s all I

Tarro: That’s perfect. You know what? It made me laugh,

Steeeve: Yeah, this month is Pride Month, and so we’ve got a special pride filled episode here for you today.

Tarro: but before we dive into things, we just wanted to start off by acknowledging that this year pride feels a little bit different.

Steeeve: Yeah. The past few years, pride Discourse was dominated by whether or not to, Acknowledge the badness of pride washing from corporate sponsors or whether kink gear should be a lot of parades. But this year, the threat to queer rights feels really right there at our back door. And, in a way that it, it hasn’t before as much.

Tarro: Yeah, I mean, gender affirming care is being restricted all over everywhere. Queer representation is being removed from schools, banned from curriculums. even a lot of government offices and stuff have been required to remove any kind of like pride memorabilia. it, really does kind of feel like queerness is being erased in front of our berry eyes.

Steeeve: Yeah. In the US we have a really evil hatemonger trying to marshal a bunch of really violent, hateful people in our direction because anything to distract them from what he’s actually doing, which is robbing them and, and giving their money to, even richer people to make them even more rich. 2024 saw the largest number of antiquer bills brought to the floor on record. 2025 is already ahead of those numbers. It’s, trending in a pretty bad direction.

Tarro: . So from us here at the show, we just wanted to acknowledge that it’s a tough year there to celebrate, but that’s also why it’s so important that we do.

Steeeve: Yes. And to whit, we recommend that you support your local pride events. If there aren’t local pride events, maybe you could start them. check in with your queer friends, especially your trans friends. Uh, remember that even those zoo issues and queer issues might look a little different from the outside.

We’re all in this fight together.

Tarro: Anyway, enough of that. Today we’re talking with two amazing folks about real life zoo pride and how you can find ways to make zoo friends. You can actually see without needing to rely on a screen. I. Let’s do it.

Steeeve: Do we have emails today?

Tarro: Oh, shoot. I don’t think we do. Hold on…

(dials on a phone)

Toggle: Hello?

Tarro: Hey, Toggle? You got a sec?

Toggle: Kinda busy at the moment. Practicing my lines in Mario Kart World right now.

Tarro: Oh, down in the lounge?

Toggle: Lounge? What lounge?

Tarro: The one in the basement. It was in the orientation video?

Toggle: Ugh, no one tells me anything. I only found out we canonically have a horse-themed supercomputer after six freakin’ seasons. That would have been helpful to know early on.

Tarro: Ah, sorry. Anyway, I just wanted to see if you had the emails for this episode?

Toggle: Ah, fuck. Shit. Fuck, I totally forgot. Goddammit. Gimme a few minutes, I’ll send them over. Fuck.

Tarro: Hey before you go, any words for zoo pride this year?

Toggle: Oh, uhhh… Sure… Hey everyone, uh… It’s pride month, so I have a little challenge for you. Be a little kinder to yourself. Be a lot kinder to each other. And do one radical thing to make an animal’s life better this month. Easier said than done, but if you manage to do all three of those, that would make this month a lot more meaningful.

Tarro: Nice, thanks.

Toggle: Sure. Gimme just a little bit and I’ll find some emails.

Sponsors

Announcer: Support for Zooier. The now comes from Epiphany Pipeworks. Check out Epiphany’s work on Mastodon at Epiphany at Ferrell Cafe. That’s E-P-I-P-H-I-N-Y. E-P-I-P-H-I-N-Y.

This Pride Month Zooier Than Thou is also brought to you by Zeta Wave Glasses. Been seeing all of the corporate LGB themed branding this June and wondering where all the spicy queers are by wearing these one of a kind glasses enhanced with Zeta Wave TROs. Investor friendly Pride Ads will now become a balls to the wall trip that includes. Representation for trans non-binary polyamorous dragon stuff, werewolves, extremely sexy goats, and much, much more. Zeto wave glasses. Open your eyes.

Interview with Zoey and Lazuli - Part 1

Tarro: Welcome back to Zooier Than Thou. We’ve managed to get two incredible zoos here into the recording room to talk about their experiences, planning and running in-person zoo events.

do you guys wanna introduce yourselves?

Zoey: Yeah, sure thing. Taro really excited to be on the show. My name is Zooey. I run some in-person events as well as like tweeting random stuff on Twitter. Oh,

Tarro: Who doesn’t?

Laz: And my name is Lasley, or Laz for short, and I mod a relatively small zoo group that focuses on in-person gatherings. And I’m also really excited to be here on the spot with y’all.

Steeeve: Ooh. So where could somebody find this group?

Laz: a, a wonderful question. It’s a relatively small group of only 15 people, that’s kind of been cultivated over time. We meet every week on Telegram and have topical discussions, that are pretty deep and pretty impactful to the community. And then we meet in person about two to three times a year.

But, outside of that, in my personal experience, I spend a lot of time going around and spending time with friends and going to different gatherings all around the country,at different times of the year,

Steeeve: Wow.

Tarro: Sounds like fun.

Steeeve: What kind of places have you gone to within the country?

Laz: north, Southeast, and West. Uh, So whenever my group gets together, we generally choose, a, generally more secluded area. Um, it often has a really deep connection with the environment as well as the opportunity to get away from a lot of the modern factors that affect sort of how we engage with the world.

So it allows us to be a little bit more present and dive into some deeper topics, and just have a really kick ass awesome time. That’s actually where I met Zooey the first time is we had a gathering in the last year, and, uh, she was invited by the member who was hosting it that time and it was one of the most impactful times I’ve ever had with another zoo, and I am thrilled to be talking with her.

Steeeve: that’s awesome. Speaking of Zooey, uh, you have a group as well. Could you tell us about it?

Zoey: Yeah, I really love that we have a lot of different type of groups here on the show today. My group is a lot more Faron oriented and a lot more large tent style. it’s still a pretty tough thing to get into. much to the dismay of all the people that have been messaging me on Twitter trying to say, Hey, can I get an invite?

really it’s something that’s built around long-term relationships, building trust with folks and Just finding other zoos and connecting with other people out in the community and really building that network, building up your trustworthiness, showing that you’re truly committed to the cause. Not only that you’re just a zoo, but that you’re also really committed to animal welfare, animal happiness.

That’s, that’s another big thing that we look for. So there’s no one quick answer for how to get in, how to come to the party, but it’s really just about building those relationships and showing your character.

Steeeve: Ooh. So you mentioned something about furry conventions. Could you talk to us about the in-person events that you have attended at those?

Zoey: Yeah, definitely. I started out attending them and now I’m running them as well. they’re really fantastic, Dick, very. Revolutionary space to exist within a furry con. it’s really kind of furry, is one of the largest groups of people out there that have an attraction to animal characteristics. But they’re also one of the most anti zoo groups out there.

So by setting up shop right here and bringing a slice of, Hey, you don’t have to hide. Hey, you don’t have to be afraid of people finding out about you. You can come to one of the most enjoyable parties you’ll have at the con and not worry at all. Find people that are just like you. it’s a really revolutionary act that we hope encourages people to then go and network with the people in their local communities, build long-term friendships.

that’s really our big goal with it.

Steeeve: Having been to one of your parties, I can definitely say, uh, as much as it’s, uh, a space that people don’t necessarily have to worry about at the same time, it is uh, very, very intimidating going to a room full of like 60 other people in real life that are all there like as zoos and being like, yep, that’s me too.

Well, and plus, as everybody knows, all of the room parties at furry conventions for zoos consist entirely of bestiality, orgies. And by bestiality orgies, I mean, Mario Kart tournaments. if you wish to have a Mario Kart tournament, and by that I mean bestiality orgy, could you give us some tips on how to get the most out of your orgy slash Mario Kart?

Tarro: You go to the best parties. What are you?

Steeeve: Also, full disclosure, I’m terrible at video games like easy prey.

Tarro: Was really expecting you to say, I’m terrible at bestiality

Steeeve: too. Yeah, just the worst.

But yeah, I know a lot of the, the sort of online conversation around these kind of parties is that it’s like, yeah, people are just bringing their dogs and getting it on, but like, from what I’ve seen, that is not the case. Yeah, I’ve never actually been to a zoo party that had any animals show up. I’ve only seen those at furry parties with people that don’t actually care that much about the welfare of their animal. Oh, you mean,

Zoey: really funny how people will assume so they were just free, but not like zoo furries and they just happened to like bring pets along and then they got to hang out in a loud room.

Yeah, those are the only dogs I’ve seen at, at furry

Steeeve: Wow.

Zoey: that, and the service animals that are, are properly taken care of. But as far as a big rager party, it’s only been the non zoo

Steeeve: Yeah. What I have seen a lot of is, Doritos. Yeah.

Tarro: There

Zoey: see more Fritos.

Tarro: sure.

Steeeve: Yeah, there was one that I went to where it was like the VIP room of the ferry convention, and there was a whole table just completely filled with every variety of Dorito and maybe some other ships. And, um, I guess it was such an intimidating display that nobody wanted to be the first person to open a bag of chips.

And so everyone was just kind of standing around looking at this, there was very little space on the table. It was all chips. Nobody wanted to be the first one to like, Hey, I think I’ll have some

Laz: you, you know, depending on the intensity of the flavor, some Dorito experiences can verge on

sexual.

Steeeve: Yeah. I mean, I don’t know how many times I have personally been flavor blasted, but it’s like a lot.

Tarro: More than one for

Steeeve: Yeah. So, um, could you talk about, the furries that, you know, in and out of the zoo community you know, it’s a pride episode, you know, is there any furry activity happening during Pride that you guys would like to share with us?

Zoey: I’d say from my experience, zoos exist in every corner and every level of furry. there’s a lot of different types of zoos and different levels of risk tolerance and willingness to interact. but they’re all out there. whether they’re just an island that is never gonna tell a soul or never thinks they’re gonna tell a soul like, like I once did, they’re really everywhere.

Laz: And as for myself, I have. Really no connection to furry at all. Um, and part of that was by design moving into community because there are certain, social landmines that I don’t have to worry about moving through the space. But none of the gatherings, connections or anything that I host or participate in throughout the year, uh, really have any connection to furry besides the fact that some people may happen to be furry.

so I would hate for anybody listening to this thinking that the only way to, find a path forward in community is through the fandom. Though no doubt that is a very broad avenue. but it is not

the only one

Steeeve: a lot of overlap there. So building on that. Why just indulge us. Why do you feel that it’s important to have real life zoo friends?

Laz: I think that it is very hard to describe to somebody who has existed in these spaces only online, what it means to be in person with somebody with whom you can be the most authentic and honest version of yourself. And being able to look somebody in the eye and talk about things that you never thought you’d talk about, or hearing someone say things that you thought you were the only person on earth to ever feel or experiences, you know, to go through.

it’s an incredibly difficult feeling to describe and it’s one that, especially your first time, and I don’t know if you all have experienced the same thing, but it will leave you very emotional and sometimes make you realize that, oh, what I, the way I’ve been participating in community has been, only a fraction of what is.

Capable, of the experience.

Tarro: Yeah, I, first found my way into the sort of meeting other zoos through the furry fandom. like a lot of people did, but the connection there I think was very like, focused around wow, animal hot. and that was like as, as deep as it went. and, you know, looking back on it, some of those groups maybe weren’t like the best places to like, stumble onto the community.

but the first time that I, went and met another zoo in real life, suddenly it was like, I felt so much more invested in like the community at large and felt like it was like a real part of myself that I could, like, engage with as opposed to just being like that thing that I do online sometimes.

Laz: a, absolutely. And if I could use an example I’ll just speak about gay men, in certain parts of history, let’s say the early 19 hundreds. gay was something that you did, or your sexuality was an action. for a lot of people, it didn’t have a ton of substance behind it.

But whenever you have the opportunity to form deeper relationships, you begin to realize that this is an identity and it’s something that you are rather than something that you do. And in person meetings with people makes everything so much more tangible and real that you begin to discover whole new sides of yourself and whole new ways of connecting with people that might not have been obvious through a solely online experience.

Zoey: I really think that’s a huge part of it. I think a lot of what the zoo community struggles with today is we’re also compartmentalized, and people are really only bringing a sliver of themselves and interacting with the community through sexuality in a lot of these cases, and. That’s much easier to do when you’re online and you’re just talking through an alt account that you only talk and interact with people sexually on.

Whereas when you get to these parties, something I’m really passionate about is it’s not a big sex party. It is people listening to music and chatting. It’s an environment designed for meeting new friends and actually being able to have conversations with people. the internet is really fine for sparking connection, but it’s the people that you’re grabbing dinner with on a Friday night that really have the biggest impact in your life

Laz: A hundred percent.

Zoey: interacting with people IRL gets you so much closer to those fulfilling social relationships that pat creatures like humans need in our lives.

Laz: I think you brought up a really good point, Zooey, in terms of a gathering. I mean, when we’re talking about gatherings, we might think of massive parties or these giant groups, but again, like getting a meal on a Friday night, that is a gathering, like when two or more are together, that is a gathering and there are all kinds of beautiful things that can happen within all kinds of levels of that, whether it’s two people or whether it’s a hundred.

Tarro: Yeah, so I think one of the, big questions around, you know, zoo events in general is the idea of how we manage to keep people safe when they meet up with other zoos in person. there’s a lot of fears around, you know, people getting docked or getting, you know, random photo getting spread in a way where suddenly like everyone’s in trouble, or like, god forbid, someone who shouldn’t be there showing up, trying to cause problems.

what kind of things are you guys considering when you’re planning these events to make sure that people are safe?

Zoey: It is really much more of a human question than a technology question. And in society we often like to mix those two things up, but I. No matter how sophisticated NSA level your security is technically, it’s really about knowing the people in your group and knowing that you all share a commitment to your security.

You all share the same values and being selective about who that group is, a tip I would say, from the earlier question of how do we recommend people start getting involved and start organizing? I think one of the biggest tips that, that I have, and I’m sure LA will agree, is quality over quantity.

Don’t just be out here trying to break the record for the biggest zoo party. Just to break the record for the biggest zoo party. Focus on cultivating that group around shared values, shared mission, trust, friendship. You should really be hanging out with people where. Is a genuine love and connection for each other that you’re basing everything on and a love for animals that you’re

basing it on.

Tarro: Yeah,

Steeeve: Yeah, and I’ve, I’ve actually attended one of those,

Laz: Wolf.

Steeeve: huge out in the country. Giant zoo parties that had like over 300 people show up at once. And what happened was, is um, you know, like various debris gets sucked into a jet engine. You know, there’s, it’s mostly what’s supposed to be there, but, um, you know, occasionally like a bird’s up in there or whatever and it’s like, uh, damn dude, this is, not what I expected.

And you know, in any group, since I feel like zoos are a cross section of society, you’re gonna end up with a bunch of different viewpoints in a bunch of different personalities. And some of those folks might be, not really ready to interact with people in a harmonious way. And, in the context of a gigantic party might, stress themselves out or others.

but you know, I don’t, I don’t think that’s a zoo only feature. I think that’s just a human feature. You get a cross section of people and most people are probably pretty cool with, with a lot of stuff and some people are not. if you are a little more selective as Lazar indicated, then I think you can control for that a little better.

And then you can have a smaller, intimate group that you know a little more, you know what to expect. and like the, the little group of zoos that I have around me, I’ve known for years and years and we spend a lot of time together. But I mean, it’s just a handful of people. and we’re not really like inviting a bunch of new people in or having large gatherings or anything.

But the other thing I would add, and we’ve talked about this a zillion times before for the. Previous six years. But, if you’re gonna have a meeting with new zoos, you should probably do that in like a well lit public place. we’ve mentioned Waffle House before, but you know, you could go to any old place because then it’s like, well, maybe I’m a zoo.

Maybe I’m just a standard waffle patron. You don’t know. Maybe I just happen to got a waffle right now. You can’t prove nothing. Right? So then that’s, that’s a layer of anonymity that’s probably pretty sensible if you’re meeting

someone at least for the first time. But there’s nothing to stop you from meet and zoos in a public place.

Laz: I’d also love to bring up the topic

of immediacy in that when you are gathering with people,

if someone that you are meeting with or group that you’re meeting with, if timing is imperative, if they really want it to happen quick, or if you are somebody who’s coming new into community and you are, you really want something to happen quick, you just started talking to somebody you’d like to meet up with them.

I would encourage every opportunity to slow down and give yourself the chance to use really good judgment. Get to know people more, get to know a little bit more about their values. And it’s not going to assure that a meetup is gonna be, all sunny and rosy and you’re gonna love this person, whatever.

But it’s gonna give you a huge leg up in terms of assuring that, you’re not getting into a situation that’s not favorable.

Tarro: Yeah, kind of along the same line, I guess if someone’s listening to this podcast and they’re thinking, God, I would love to know more zoos in real life, I just dunno how to get started. Like what’s the process there? Do you just like make a Twitter account and like DM Zooey and say, hi, please introduce me to people.

Like where what, how do you go through that to get to the point where you can’t even start, like having those connections with people and trying to like work your way into those communities?

Zoey: That is,

Steeeve: Yeah, a really great question. I think.

Tarro: Zoe’s like, yeah, no, you got it. A hundred percent right. Just DM me and I’ll hook you up.

Laz: Her dms are wide open.

Steeeve: I’ve also had people say like, Hey, um, you’re mailing stickers all over the world, right? I say, yeah. And they say, well, I am in, you know, such and such place. Do you know any other zoos here who have asked for stickers? And I’m like, yeah, I do, but I’m not going to give you their address.

People just send me their home address to get stickers, you know, or some kind of mailing address at least. But, no, I’m not gonna share that with you. And it’s frustrating because you wanna help people, but you know, also don’t wanna be a psychopath. Just give people’s a dress out. So, I mean, yeah. Well, I, you know, and it’s like, Hey man, I’m, I’m in an isolated part of Canada, you know, on the, in, on, on the West coast.

do you know any zoos out here? I’m like, yeah, man, there’s a ton of Canadian zoos, but I’m not gonna, out them to random strangers. You could be anybody and you know, you wanna help, but you don’t wanna do it that way. I just, it’s nice to know that they’re there. So I do feel comfortable saying like, yeah, man, wherever you are, even if it’s in a really remote place where it would be hard to imagine zoos thriving. like I’ve said a million times, like if you wanna know if there’s zoos somewhere, if there’s humans there’s zoos.

Laz: without a doubt. Yeah. And I can

speak to my, personal experience, and this is not,

this is not advocating that it’s the only way that it can be done. but for myself, I was, very sure of who I was, but experiencing a lot of depression, feeling like my life was sort of set to go in a particular direction or not be one that was gonna be gratifying.

Even though I knew, and I had known since, you know, beginning of time that I was zoo. But on these forums, there was somebody who. said something that really resonated with me and I made my first DM ever. And like my heart was pounding. It was insane. And by chance, that person also lived near me, remarkably close to me.

And I think that we talked for

six months before we met up in person. and the reason why that person was so important to me was because it was the first person I saw where someone said,

this part of myself is integral to who I am. I’m very proud of it, and I’ve oriented my entire life in that around it.

And about six months later, I met the second zoo I knew, and then about six months later I knew 10 zoos. And

then about six months later I knew 200 zoos. and when. I, I think initially everybody is looking for a fast pass into

being a part of it and with it, and I think that furry provides that more than a non furry route.

Steeeve: Yeah, there you go.

Laz: But it takes this initial, ignition energy and it takes, a decision and a shift in narrative to say, I can do this. And what I would recommend is to first all, first of all, get lucky, which sounds super non-helpful. But if I give you a D and say, if you roll a six, you’re in community.

Now, that’s a pretty low odd, but if I give you 10 dice and say if one of these is a six, then you have a path into community that’s pretty good chances. What I would recommend if you’re somebody who is more operating, online or in forums, is if you see yourself reflected in somebody, if you see something that catches your attention, if you hear or see someone type out or say something that really resonates with you, just reach out and say hi.

just reach out and say that really hit me. Or, I also struggle with the same things, or, I really appreciate your perspective, and it is so hard to anticipate where that conversation is going to go. ‘cause you might get no response or just a, yeah, thanks. Or that might be the person that is going to be your homie for the next 10 years and your ride or die.

And it could be anywhere in between. But the more chances you take to reach out and also go slow and use really good judgment and don’t do anything if it doesn’t feel right that. That is probably the best advice I can give. It is really hard in the beginning and I can probably speak for all of us here in saying that, like it took a little bit of luck, it took that right connection.

But if you use good judgment and you have faith, I think that you will find a way through to community.

Zoey: I really love that you said that at the end, because that’s pretty much the answer that I came to as well in terms of trust your instincts. Udar is real, where we’re pretty good at sniffing out our own kind. So if you see one of those things that resonates with you, lean into those things. Lean into those relationships.

Also, you yourself, don’t be afraid to put off those signals. There’s a lot of people out there that think if they commission phal porn once, they’re gonna immediately be canceled forever. Everyone will know that they’re a zoo. It’ll be over immediately. But don’t be afraid to fly the flag and say you’re into Phal.

Art Commission, Phal art. Do things like that are going to trip other people’s senses. And then not only will you be leaning into people that trigger your zar, but other people whose zar you’ve

triggered are gonna lean into conversations with you.

Steeeve: right. I mean that’s, that’s how Zoar and Gaar and literal radar actually work. They send out a signal and then based on what it reflects off of. Then that tells you something about it. But you have to send out the signal first. If you’re just like sitting at home hoping someone passively notices that you’re a zoo, it’s gonna probably be pretty hard.

you have to put yourself out there within your risk profile. And if you’re like, my life would explode in a way that I can’t tolerate, if I, if anyone ever knew, then that’s, it’s hard to work within that and make connections in community, but, you know, you gotta find out for

yourself like what you’re willing to share, you know, with potentially, anybody.

And, just be judicious about it, you know?

Laz: I really appreciate,

the term risk profile.

I often use the term risk tolerance because there is a, dual process between OPSEC and risk tolerance, and you have to figure out where, you will come to understand where you fall in this line. Where perfect OPSEC means that you might be isolated forever.

And an extremely high risk tolerance might be that you’re not gonna move in a good direction for very long. So I think that oftentimes a lot of people will just say, opsec, opsec, opsec.opsec. But for me, I have a relatively high risk tolerance, because I’m not in furry, I don’t have. a ton of different accounts that I have to split my identity between.

I have one connection to community and my lifestyle and my job. And the fact that I am out to all the most important people in my life means that I can take greater risks. So there are a lot of scenarios when people would like to form connections that I will say after talking with somebody, yes, I would love to meet with you.

I’d love to do this thing because I have the risk tolerance that allows those connections to be made and that I’m not saying that one direction or the other is better. Everybody has to figure out where that is. But you’ve gotta dip your toe in at some point in time. And perfect OPSEC means that you might be isolated for a long, long time.

the bridge here is just slowing down in

good judgment. in, in anything that you do.

Steeeve: And of course we’ve addressed this previously on our safety dance

episode

Tarro: Great episode.

Zoey: I highly recommend.

Steeeve: for anyone who cares to go back and review that from the archives, right? Yeah. Classic. but moving on, I was wondering since it’s Pride month, if anyone is doing anything special for Zoo Pride, what are you guys doing?

Tarro: I have, my own little sort of local group around me and, uh, all of us are getting together we have one person’s house that we always congregate at ‘ And, we, Try to get together every now and then and do like some kind of, either like a barbecue or we’ve done like board game nights before.

one time we did like a tabletop RPG thing and that was really bad, which sucks ‘cause I like those. but always fr zoo pride week, we try to get together at some point, usually over the weekend and just like, bring the partners to get along with the other animals that are therian. Just, yeah, hang out.

it feels weird because I’m also doing a lot of like queer pride events, and it’s all like marches and big parties and parades and like, yeah, we’re going all out for that. And then the zoo pride stuff is much more like, let’s get

together, have some drinks, maybe.

Zoey: That’s pretty much the story for me too. I didn’t even think of it when the question of what am I doing for Zoo Pride came up, the answer was kind of, well, not too much. But I actually think that’s particularly revolutionary because for me, hanging out with a bunch of zoos on a Friday night is just a Friday night, and it’s, really powerful when that just becomes your life and not something that is a big celebration.

So maybe next year I’ll, I’ll try to do a big celebration to commemorate it and try to give the regular queers a, a run for their money.

Tarro: Make sure you invite me.

Zoey: Oh yeah.

what even is a regular queer? I caught myself saying that, and I’m like,

Tarro:

sure.

Just one of those gaze.

Steeeve: You know the regular ones,

Tarro: Ooh. But what is

Steeeve: but if you’re a queer, does that revert you back

Zoey: just believe in

a traditional, monogamous relationship between a white woman and her

dog

Tarro: So

Zoey: for the purpose of

procreation. We’ll, keep trying.

Steeeve: That’s a, that’s a queer, queer,

double

Emails

Tarro: Oh, just got a call from Toggle. He sent those emails over to us. So let’s take a break from this conversation and quickly dive into those. Uh, our first email comes from Raven.

Steeeve: Raven writes, hello and a few other things. First of all, we just want to say thank you for making the podcast. It’s done a lot of good for us and the people we love. Secondly, we heard a song on the podcast during the Pirate radio episode, and we got the urge to dake it into chip tune. So we did. We’re not totally sure who the original artist was or how to get in touch, but we’ve attached the MP three

if the original artist is all right with it, you’re welcome to use it if you ever find a chance to. Thirdly, we make a design for some Zoo pride stickers and got a hundred or so printed. It was like $10 more expensive than getting 10 printed, so we figured why not, and we’d like to try and give them out to people as we’re not well known in the zoo community.

We don’t feel comfortable asking people for their addresses, but we’re curious if you had ideas for other ways to get them out to zoos Still. We’ve also attached the SVG if y’all or anyone else would like to print some. Lastly, we have a couple of episode slash segment suggestions. As a plural system, we’d love to hear other plural zoo experiences.

I. Some of us in here are zoo, but others aren’t, and it’s been interesting for us to have the zoo self-discovery experience in so many different ways. Our other suggestion is about people’s experiences finding therapists and how it went for them. I. We’ve had an extremely positive and affirming experience with a kink therapist who has never worked with the zoo before, and we’d love to hear other people’s experiences as well.

Anyways, thanks for your time and for all the good you do. A colorful bunch of creatures,

Tarro: What a great name. I love that name.

Steeeve: right? So many colors, so many creatures.

Tarro: so first of all, going in order. you’re welcome. We love making the show we love, knowing that people are there listening to it. So thanks so much for, uh, writing in and just saying hi. As far as the song,I, uh, appreciate you letting us know that we can use it. We definitely do have a music episode coming up that’s foreshadowing by the way. and so, uh, if we find the space for it, maybe we’ll throw it in the show.

Make sure you listen.

Steeeve: Yeah, that sounds awesome. as for the stickers, this has been a common thing where people want to contribute designs or physical stickers and, don’t have a means of distribution. So I. What a lot of them have been doing. If they’re not just like. Taking them to furry conventions and leaving them out on a table or giving them to other friends they meet.

There is uh, they send ‘em to me and then I resend them out to my giant mailing list. so I can be found on acts. My handle, there is stories Zoo, all one word. And you can see a bunch of stickers that I’ve been sending out for years and years. I’ve sent out, I don’t know, over 9,000 stickers. Over 9,000. At this point, many of which were not designed by me.

some of which were not printed by me either. and also I’ve, I’ve done something similar where I included the design files and a pinned tweet, and anyone who doesn’t feel comfortable ordering stickers or wants to remix them, use them any way they like. may download any of our previous designs for free and use them any way they like.

but anyway, feel free to reach out on X or send me an email at zoo [email protected] and I’ll uh, get back to you about sticker distribution.

Tarro: Yeah. And as far as the hundred that you already have, there’s a big culture at pretty much every zoo party I’ve been to about trading stickers. So even though you’re not necessarily well known in the community right now, at the same time, if you’re listening to this episode and you think to yourself, wow, I’d like to have some real life zoo friends, you’re gonna be able to give a pretty cool gift once you do actually start to make your way into those circles.

And I think that’s kind of neat. So that’s an option as

Steeeve: Nice. as far as finding therapists, um, let’s see. I think we have discussed this previously in the season three. Episode three, get help episodes. Season six, episode four, there’s an email from Rainey Forest. Season three, episode seven, the Sheriff of Nottingham’s Negative experience with a VA therapist and other positive experiences afterwards.

Season three, episode 10, canine travelers experience with a therapist Sheriff of Nottingham referred them to and so on. and in the, uh, suicide prevention and awareness episode, we spent the entire episode interviewing a licensed therapist. So, um, what that therapist has told me. Is that if somebody is ready to, make some changes and do some work on their mental health, any adequate therapist will do.

I. But if you’re not ready to make those changes and do that work, even the best therapist in the world won’t be able to help you. And sometimes you just don’t vibe with a therapist, and that’s okay. It’s almost like dating. you can try a therapist, see how you feel, see how your rapport is. And if you don’t get along, you can always try a different one.

but if you’re ready to, to make a change, generally speaking, I. Any therapist, that’s average. will be okay. you’ll be able to, get better, address your issues.

yeah.

Tarro: We’ve also got, uh, two different articles over around zoo.pub about, therapy for zoos. One is more just sort of an overview of the things to be aware of, the things to sort of look out for, how to pick a good therapist. and the other is just one person’s personal experience going through that process and the conversation that they had with their therapist at the time.

both of those can be pretty good resources as well if you wanna check them out. but. I think therapy’s incredible. I think that, honestly, whether you are, you know, quote unquote mentally sound or not, it’s just so helpful having someone that you can talk to, to sort of vent about the things that are going on in your life that can give you sort of a reflection of your own problems.

I, I really recommend anyone who’s able to, to participate in some kind of therapy, even if it’s like just once a month checking in with someone. I hope you can find someone. and I can definitely attest to the

Steeeve: Sweet. And I think, we have also addressed plural systems before, have we not?

Tarro: Uh, that was season four, episode nine with an email, that we were talking about that episode. And, Yeah. Uh, Amor Knots was discussing this as a plural themselves. and Canis has mentioned being plural as well.

but then also, uh, I actually work with someone who’s plural pretty closely myself as a moderator for a chat that I run. And, uh, they’re. Super great, but one of their head mates is, uh, zoo and the other three are not. and it’s a very sort of interesting dynamic, sort of, depending on who’s, fronting at the time.

‘cause one of them just finds the whole thing very absurd. One of ‘em is obviously really into it. I think the experience you said about being able to come to terms with your zoosexuality on different levels is really cool. ‘cause I think it lets you appreciate different. Ways that people come to that self-acceptance.

And I think that gives you a lot of I dunno, wisdom I guess, to empathize with other people. So there are a decent number of plural zoos out there. and, yeah, I think it’s cool.

Steeeve: thanks for the kind words, Raven, and we hope that you are able to find an outlet for your stickers and a good therapist. And, we really appreciate the chip tune. We look forward to checking that out and maybe putting it on the show. next up we have, uh, email from Dragon. Tara, do you wanna take this one?

Tarro: Sure dragon writes, Hey, just checking in. How are you guys doing? I have a song too that I wrote the lyrics for. the email reads, Hey, Toggle in the gang.

I just wanted to say how much I enjoyed being a part of Project Zoo Tube and helping spread the zoo Gospel. to be clear, for anyone who’s newer zoo, YouTube is not what you think it is. It’s, they, they we’re putting our episodes on YouTube for a long time. Very cool. it was good. I’ve been checking in on Zoo WTF and the YouTube channel, and I saw your cover of Howling at the Moon, and I absolutely loved it.

You were all incredibly talented, both in composing and singing. I also wish I had discovered your podcast earlier before Fausty passed from the episodes in season one. He seemed like such a great personality with a hilarious sense of humor. It’s amazing that you’re still going strong on a monthly basis after six years.

I’m really glad to see that. Also, I’ve included the link to the SoundCloud song below. I’d love for you to check it out. the SoundCloud link is actually dead at this point. if you’re listening to this dragon, uh, please, you know, reach out, send the song in again.

We would absolutely love to hear it. I think Zoom music is really, really cool and I would love

to see what you came up with.

Steeeve: Yeah, I’m always just blown away by the

quality of the stuff that, that we are making and, and I’m always surprised by it. And, man, it’s, it’s great. it doesn’t seem like it’s been six years I’ve been on the show since season one, episode two, I. the time has just really flown by. I can’t believe I’ve sent out so many stickers and co-hosted so many of these and everything else pretty

Tarro: Mm-hmm. Well, you’re

good at it, so they keep you

around.

Steeeve: Oh no, don’t tell me that.

Alright. And then, dragon has included. Lyrics, which we will not attempt to improvise into a song, but they look really cool and we appreciate that you’ve sent them in and we would love to hear the musical version of it if you’d like to resend it.

Tarro: Please do.

Steeeve: Yeah.

Tarro: Anyway, our uh, next email comes from a listener.

Steeeve: All right. A listener writes in with the subject, zoo 1 0 1 was a great episode. a listener writes, I’m lagging behind a bit, but I just finished Zoo 1 0 1 and it was delightful. I was smiling the whole time. Please send my thanks to the crew for their excellent work. The generational memory portion with the horse Was especially enjoyable. It sounds like the equine incline are hard to track down, but it’s always appreciated when they contribute their perspective to the Podcast. Well, cool. Thanks for writing in. there’s a lot of horses, zoos, and maybe they’re outnumbered a little by dog zoos, but, they’re therian, they’re here and we appreciate them too.

Tarro: I have a conspiracy theory that horses, zoos are just less on social media, but there’s probably close to as many, but when they’re like out in the fields or whatever, they’re just less likely to be visible compared to like dog zoos who are

probably less worried about, running the farm. Yeah, I could see it. Or they’re, they’re too far away to pick up wifi and ‘cause they’re on a farm. they’re busy about, they’re busy doing horse work. Yeah.

yep. They’re always too busy riding

Steeeve: Yeah. There’s no No time for Twitter.

All right.

Tarro: I actually worked a lot on, zoo 1 0 1. I co-hosted that one and, uh. I really love that episode. We worked really hard on it. I’m really glad that you appreciate it, and I will, uh, absolutely pass along your

words of praise to the rest of the team.

Steeeve: So next up, it seems like we have an email from a.

Tarro: All righty. Asako writes writing back a year later. Hi, it’s me again. I wrote in about a year ago about being a non zoo who had their mind changed. This was season six, episode three, raising the Discourse. I was pleasantly surprised to hear a response so soon after I sent that email, and I listened to it multiple times and really took in what the response was.

I was inspired by not in my right mind’s email, and decided to send in an update to hopefully further enforce the it’ll work out message. As you seem to surmise, I have realized that I am indeed a zoo and suppressed myself for maybe a decade after first realizing the attraction and was kind of an anti for a while.

Gotta love being more anecdotal. Evidence for aunties being self-hating. Zoos I, uh. it’s common. I ended up connecting with other zoos and opened up about this part of myself to a friend I made in the community.

It was the first time after multiple years that I talked about it to anyone, and for the first time, I didn’t present it as some past fly had gotten over. Being actually honest to myself feels really nice. I’ve also since come out to some of my friends and my partner taking pointers from the podcast, and I’ve had no negative reactions.

Some even had a feeling that I was a zoo as a result. One friend came out to me as a zoo as well, and one became an ally. Going back to the response I got from my first email, I think the assessment was spot on. I did overcorrect to a supportive attitude right after changing my mind. I still think support and aiming for increased rights are important, but I don’t overdo the advocacy anymore, so to say.

I’m still vegan, though. I did love being indirectly called a Super Zoo by Steve because that sounds like some kind of superhero wonder what

their powers would be like. Thankful for the breakdown of my initial email, which I was really nervous about writing, and

wishing you all the best asako ps.

Steeeve: Aw.

Tarro: don’t I yet? There’s a Ps it could turn. PS in the meadows was not on the platforms you told about in response to my inquiry about the instrumentals, but Mike kindly got them to me on Telegram after recognizing me. So all’s

Steeeve: Well that’s really sweet. being indirectly called a Super Zoo, oh boy. What would their powers be like, maybe like a horny, Dr. Doolittle,

Tarro: I do feel like chem talk with animals is maybe the easiest answer, but you know, I’m just saying

shape shifting is pretty zooey.

Steeeve: Oh yeah, that too. Why limit it? right. You can satisfy all animals at all times. Yeah.

Tarro: Powerful. Where’s

my, uh, my Marvel feature movie on that, one?

Steeeve: Yeah. And just know that,

I. If, if you are feeling conflicted about your sexuality, you’re not alone. A lot of zoos have gone through that. And, if you, find that you’re having difficulty accepting yourself and you externalize that and to hating on other people with your same sexuality.

Yeah, we’ve, we’ve seen this before and. when you come around to self-acceptance, you’ll find that there’s a really good accepting community, in our ranks. And, we’ll, we’ll try to support you as best as we can.

Tarro: Yeah, and I mean we, we’ve literally already been joking about it, but the anti to zoo pipeline is, is so real. We see it all the time. And I think it really just comes down to the fact that like, nobody cares about zoos enough to even be mad about it really. Unless you feel like it’s some kind of personal flaw that you need to overcompensate for.

obviously I’m not recommending you go to any ante and just like. Try and like call them out on it and give them like

your info and like try and like change their mind or whatever.

Steeeve: They’re probably not ready for that yet.

Tarro: but I think anyone who’s approaching the community, even if it is hostilely, is doing so out of some sort of recognition of something that they have inside themselves.

we’ve seen it so much, we’re gonna keep seeing it. and I think it’s really cool that you were able to Really reflect within your own self and take a look at why you were having those feelings and come to a more healthy conclusion for yourself. That’s not always

easy to do, and I think it’s very good that you were able to. Alrighty. Our next email

is from Demon Dog. Ooh.

Steeeve: Ooh, demonic and doggy

Demon dog writes, Hey, I’m a zoo artist and musician, and I was wondering if y’all would want to use some of my music on the show. It’s super chill. Beginner electronic music. I don’t know. Genres, my Twitter handle is there, but here’s a direct link too. I also have some other sounds on my SoundCloud, which is linked in the enclosed tweet.

Sorry if this comes off as like annoying self-promotion. I was just inspired hearing Raup song a couple of episodes back and thought it would be fun to contribute to. Thanks. Either way, demon. Um. So sadly this person, SoundCloud and Twitter, were also deleted, but we really liked a song called 10:00 PM So Demon Dog, if you’re still out there, we’d love to use that song in the future if it’s still on the table. How cool is that?

Tarro: this one actually has somewhat of a happy ending,

uh, because me and Demon Dog are pretty good friends. And so after reading this email, I was able to just DM them and say, Hey, do you still have that song and can we use it? And they were like, yeah, no, absolutely. Super cool. I asked if they wanted me to plug any of their socials or if they had their music on another platform.

Uh, they said they didn’t, unfortunately. But, yeah, demons out there, they’re in the community. And, uh, they’re more than happy to keep sharing music. So if you’re listening to the Demon, hi,

how’s it going?

Steeeve: How awesome is

that also for anyone listening out there? It should be apparent, but maybe it’s not as obvious as we would hope. But, everything we do on the podcast is the most distributed team effort. Everybody contributes. and we take turns contributing different things depending on what it is.

Uh, we all have our strengths and interests, but every time you hear. Something contributed, like, a voice actor reading a part in a skit, or someone reading the disclaimer, or someone reading the sponsors, or, we all trade off co-hosting. all of this is a team effort. every one who wants to chip in pretty much can, and, um.

I’m really grateful that you are making music, so I don’t have to, so I wouldn’t have the first idea how to do that, but yeah, man, if you’re listening out Therian, you contribute something creatively that you would like to feature on the show, just send us an email, which is what? Email at Zoo. Wtf. That’s the one. Yeah, go for it.

Tarro: And uh, if you send it on a SoundCloud account and it takes us two years to get to your email and the SoundCloud account gets closed, sorry. in advance. ‘cause

apparently that’s a thing that happens sometimes.

Steeeve: Thanks for writing a demon dog. next up we have an email from Caboose.

Tarro: All righty, caboose writes, about subject season one. Episode seven, women in the Zoo community. they write, hello all. I just wanted to say thank you for the podcast. I’ve been cherry-picking my way through your episodes and have had a lot of fun listening to the nuanced approach that you take regarding the problems that the zoo community has faced.

I think women are a foundational pillar in the zoo community and deserve to have a safe place to share their experiences without misogyny or hearing about in cells or being zoo pilled. This episode I found particularly captivating when the guest you interviewed mentioned her first experience being something she saw in a book.

I too remember a similar experience in my childhood where my library had many books on zoology at the time. I think early references to the anatomy of a dog that I saw in those books combined with my own affinity for animals, really shaped the modern zoo guy that I have become as a child of the internet, I.

I quickly took these early childhood feelings and began exploring online and was quickly inundated with many individuals that shared my beliefs. I used to be a member of Beast Forum where I mostly lurked, and after its collapsed, I went dormant for a while and eventually found my way to Zoophile and decided to re-explore this side of myself.

Thanks for all the content that you produce and shedding light on the complex issues that fellow zoos, face as they try to make their way in the world.

PS if this sounds like some crazy ramblings, I may or may not have had taken copious amounts of

magic

mushrooms,

caboose.

Steeeve: If you’re, if you’re listening out Therian, you are on magic mushrooms. Just know that everyone knows. It telepathically. We know you’re high. We know it. Yeah.

Oh man. I this is, I don’t know why this is me. I feel like there was just some random variable in the matrix and it decided that I should know a bunch of female zoos in person.

And I do. In fact, you hear a lot of their voices on the podcast from time to time. and. Near, as I can tell, there’s as many female zoos as male zoos, but because the online forums are so male dominated and so hostile and objectifying to women, they tend to just lay low. They’re there, you just, you just don’t see them.

and. There’s at least one forum that we’ve heard of that was all women on Zoophile. And they even had like a cookie exchange where they made like not shaped cookies and little cookie bags and exchanged crafts and things, and they were just being like the most supportive and, and super positive. yeah, they’re totally out therian. They have. Indicated that their experiences closely meant mirror what you described, where they’re being objectified, people are demanding adult content of them. they’re angry that, that women are selecting animals instead of human companions, namely them specifically. it’s it’s a lot of anger and entitlement and hostility and, No wonder a lot of female zoos or women generally want to lay low in, in online spaces. But, um, we know you’re out Therian. We’re glad that you are and y’all are awesome. And this goes out to all these zillions of female zoos that I have met and loved over the years as well. Y’all are the best. So,

Tarro: Yeah, I, uh, I also think it’s somewhat reflective of the spaces that exist at any time within the community where both Beast Forum and Zoophile are, you know, to some degree more porn oriented. And there’s not a lot of overlap between that audience and the audience that, you know, you might consider more of, like the quote unquote modern zoo community. I think if you’re someone who’s a woman who is getting into the space that feels very uncomfortable with the kind of like response that you’re getting, maybe just like look for a different space. The zoo community is getting bigger and bigger all the time, and there’s so many great places out there that are fairly easy to find where you’re probably going to get a better

reception than

you will on any of those sort of old school forums.

Steeeve: The other thing that I’ve seen that, seems to limit the amount of, unbearable, hostile, overwhelming male attention is if you change your message settings to where people can’t. send you a direct message, but instead limit your contact with people to the comment of your posts.Then, I’ve heard told that that tends to cut down a lot of the stress of existing in those online spaces as a woman. but your results may vary. Uh, and maybe the balance of I want to be freely contactable to, I may also face harassment is or is not one that, you’re okay with. And, you know, I encourage you to, to find that balance that’s right for you. But thanks for writing in caboose. we really appreciate your perspective on, uh, season one, episode seven.

Tarro: Yeah, if nothing else, it’s cool to know that people are still going back and listening to those early, episodes. ‘cause there’s some good

Steeeve: Yeah. Well, I hope so.

Tarro: You were

Steeeve: I was too. I still am. All right. .

Tarro: and with emails outta the way, let’s get back to the conversation with Zooey

and Laz.

Interview with Zoey and Lazuli - Part 2

Tarro: So one thing. That I kind of wanted to get

your guys take on is,throughout the past, like three years or so, we’ve seen just like so much community growth, both online and I think in person as well. I think obviously there’ve been pretty amazing, you know, in-person events like kazoo and whatnot out there, but just like statistically it seems like more people are, are going to things.

do you guys expect to just see that continue to grow? Like where do we go from here? Because at some point the zoo party at the furry con gets so big that it’s like impossible to ignore, right? Or you’ve got enough people meeting up for a real life event, not at a con where it’s like, okay, now we have, 300 people, 400 people, and this is getting impractical to be in someone’s backyard.

Like, what do you think the next kind of steps are?

Zoey: I think there’s a lot of potential to continue expanding outside of cons as. Events that are more focused on the community and supporting us in building us up. I think it’s always going to be important to have a presence at cons and a presence in places mingling with everyone else so that we can find the closet zoos and the island zoos.

But that’s a great question. What do you think?

Laz: it’s a bit hard to speculate. I mean, if I don’t know. It’s weird to say, like, I think that things will sort of continue in the manner in which they are. I think that perhaps as community grows that there will be, kind of increasing subsections of community and different kinds of filters that happen for different events.

or there’s a certain quality that’s expected out of certain people who come to different events. but I definitely expect for furry to continue to be a pretty major factor in everything. but perhaps there’ll be other non furry avenues that open up and grant people more access to in-person events.

But one thing I’m seeing right now that I’m not sure has happened as much in the past is really there are some specific bubbles. I can at least speak for the United States. Around the United States, where there are incredibly rich in-person communities. There are certain areas that I go to where I stay with zoos, and then I go to dinner at another zoo household, and then I go to this party, and then me and some friends, different set of friends go hiking through the woods for a few days.

And then, so I mean, I think that richer and richer local communities that have many facets to them and a quite a, a wide web of people will continue to grow in that

way and sort of provide a counter

to the online presence.

Steeeve: and also I think it’s maybe helpful to realize that the quality of these gatherings is a reflection of the priorities and lived experiences of the people who attend them. And I think there’s like an analogy to me to be made here with the furry community where like, and I feel like this is definitely rooted in truth, although it’s not applicable to everyone all the time, but the general wisdom is that younger furries tend to live, eat and breathe drama.

And older furries have figured out how to avoid it. that’s not always true either way. Like there’s some pretty chill younger furries and some drama queen, older furries, but usually that’s how it works. And

I think usually

older zoos have more to lose. You know, just because it takes a while to do some stuff.

And so a lot of them tend to become, I call ‘em like fortress zoos, that once they’re able to buy a bunch of land out in the country and disappear off the face of the earth and not have to deal with people, and be surrounded by their menagerie of ideal animal companions,I’ve seen that happen for people who can do it, they, they often do.

so a lot of those folks that I’ve known, since the mid to late nineties, have basically just disappeared off the map. several of them that I had known, for over 20 years, did not know that this podcast existed at all. Uh, they weren’t on Twitter at all. They had never made a Twitter account. You know, so like, that’s maybe hard for a younger zoo to imagine, but that’s the reality for a

bunch of older zoos who are just like, yeah man, I don’t really wanna get involved with that drama and risk and everything. I’ve, like, for instance, one of ‘em has, built up a business that employs like four dozen people and, supports all of their families.

So, you know, coming out as a zoo would not just, cause blowback for him, but on a bunch of unrelated non zoos whose kids would not get fed all of a sudden. So he is like, yeah, no, I’m not gonna paint a

target on myself and make myself visible. And that’s understandable. He made a call, he still has zoo friends, but he’s not trying to do

public, front facing activism.

Zoey: I think every day that passes, I start to understand the fortress dream more.

I definitely don’t want the isolation though. I think, I think one small thing that we can do that will make that more positive is what if we build our fortresses next door to each other? What if we’re nearby each other? We can still be out there, we can still be in

fortresses, but we’re packed creatures we’re not meant to be out completely

Laz: It. Yes. and it can also draw heat.

Steeeve: Oh, I’ve, I’ve definitely seen that one,

I’ve also seen communes where like a zoo bought a bunch of land out in the country and did networking, you know, like computer work remotely so that they could like get paid West Coast money, but then, be like rich for their, for their local economy, right?

And they’re like, wow, I can finally have the 12 dogs that I’ve always wanted to have at once. You know, I’ve always wanted a private herd of alpaca, so you see that. But then also, you know, there’s so much space ‘cause it’s acres and acres and acres that, like a bunch of zoos can also live therian.

Um, I’ve seen that happen where like there’s a collection of outbuildings and trailers and stuff and, and they do have kind of a communal lifestyle. So it’s, it’s an option. Just depends on the people,

Laz: without a doubt. And I think that you’ve brought up sort of two different concepts that are really important for why as people get older who are involved in the community that they begin to pull out of it, slightly. And one, as you went into is security. You have more to lose. But the other reason, which I think you’ve touched on a little bit, is that you find fulfillment and you get to sort of lean back onto those connections that you’ve made.

And I think that a huge issue, not issue, but something worth talking about right now is sort of, at least for people on forums or online in different spaces. That the deeper you get into community, often the more that you pull out of those online spaces because you’ve moved into realms that are more fulfilling.

But then you lose all of these bridges to community and you also lose this wealth of history, wisdom and context, and thank dog for the old timers who are still around and still engaging with these groups to provide a lot of, wisdom and help us realize that time in a lot of ways is circular, and to help us realize that the, drama has always existed.

And that growth is real, but oftentimes it, it’s recurring. so I think a huge question is how do you provide good gateways and good bridges for people to enter community when those bridges are often, sort of habit made and are, are isolating themselves and are pulling a piece of that history and wisdom out of community.

Tarro: Yeah, and I mean that’s something I’ve, I’ve talked about a lot already, but I think that it is so important to have people that do have that historical context to be in the community, both as a point of like wisdom, but also just like to provide that history to the community back because I think it’s so.

Easy to lose, little like pieces of our history here and there over time, things just don’t get archived or whatever. And it’s a little off topic, but No, I agree. I I think it’s so easy once you have everything you’re looking for from the community to say, well, I’m good. I don’t need to keep, you know, getting death threats on Twitter or whatever.

But it’s also so helpful for younger folks in the community to have those points of perspective.

Zoey: Sharing wisdom is definitely one of my top things for why real life community is so important. I think that’s actually one of the most important parts of community is being able to learn from each other, being able to grow with each other. No one is perfect. It’s not like any of us get zoo sex ed or queer activism

Laz: Mm-hmm.

Zoey: So having a community of people around you, rather than being an island who doesn’t know how to treat their animal properly, doesn’t know how to make their animal as happy as they could be. Having a community of people around you who Know how to raise a dog that’s happy, know how to properly interact with their partner, who can give you pointers and help you be better, to be a better partner for your animal, I think that’s probably, for me, the most important part of zoo community is how it allows us to grow and be better to the animals in our lives.

Laz: And resource sharing is much more of a possibility when you move towards in-person friendships and gatherings and things like that.

it’s probably one of the, one of the cooler things

about having those IRL connections.

Steeeve: Yeah, and like, I happened to have gotten into the zoo community and gone to my first zoo gathering when I was still a teenager. And I didn’t think that this would happen to me for some reason. But just by virtue of staying in the community and not dying of something, I apparently have become literally a gray muzzle zoo.

And now when I interact with other zoos, They just assume, you know, if I’m an event, they’re like, oh, what are you presenting? What are you organizing? And if I’m like, I’m just attending, they’re like, they give me this look like I’m the scum of the earth. And they’re like, don’t you feel like it’s time you gave something back to the community? That’s how I got suckered into working, at a free convention on the staff. It was like, I paid my penance. Leave me alone. and also that’s how I ended up in this podcast. I was like, oh shit. Like I think this is a chance to give something back. So if you find yourself in the luxurious position of having surplus care to offer to the community,there’s a lot of stuff that that can help, you know.

Tarro: Mm-hmm.

Laz: and also recognize the people who are contributing a ton because they might get,

they might get incredibly burned out over time, so it’s good to also support the people who are putting a lot of effort towards things.

Steeeve: Yeah, Toggle.

Tarro: yeah, if everyone could, uh, just like, pause the podcast right now and go to your, your favorite app of choice and just DM, Toggle and say you’re doing a great job. That’d be very helpful. One more thing around this topic that I wanted to ask, which is just like, say that you’re someone who does have that, that surplus of care and that surplus of energy and you really wanna sort of create your own local scene because you’ve experimented and tried to reach out, but you’re not finding anyone in your area.

is there like a best practice way to start building that from the ground up?

Zoey: I think it’s a lot of the same stuff that we talked about earlier about how to network the first step to a local community is two people getting a meal together or wherever it is. If you don’t have a, did we say Waffle House? Yeah, waffle House.

Tarro: but like even before that point, say you’re in like rural Arkansas, are you just like posting your zip code and saying like, anyone around.

Zoey: definitely not that.

Tarro: we sort of touched on it before about how to like even find these groups and connections and, we made a really good point of saying it’s about being slow and it’s about, being careful, but like from a practical level, whether you’re trying to run something or even just meet other people and stuff, like what actually is the first step and then like the second step to actually be able to do that.

‘cause I think there’s a jump in logic between, okay, I’m sitting here on my computer, what do I do? And okay, I’m messaging with someone and we’re, you know, starting to feel it out. ‘cause you could message, say a hundred people and they all just happen to be like, not in your area. I guess what’s the best way to sort of like round that down a little bit?

Zoey: I think in my experience, it was interacting with the local, furry community. Just because I was too afraid to ever meet someone off of the internet. My, my first two years on Twitter, I didn’t even DM anyone. I was just so afraid of a sting, so furry was the route for me, but that’s definitely not the only one.

Laz: it is very difficult for me to recommend my experience to other people, not in that it was bad, but I do not want to take responsibility for, differing experiences and things like that. But for me, it was, for me, it was reaching out to people on local forums and also on other forums that didn’t have, local or place-based sections.

That were a little bit more, friendly, seeing someone say like, oh yeah, I really love this kind of music. They played a lot in this area of the country. And just reaching out and be like, I also like the style of music, by chance. Like, this might be inappropriate, might be bad opsec, but do you happen to live in this area?

And they might say, yes. And I said, I’m traveling there, in next month. And if you’d like to eat or do whatever. I mean, not everybody has the chance to travel, but I think oftentimes the connections, the best connections that you make, don’t care about location. They care about. I mean, in terms of online connections, they are not locational.

But perhaps if you are going to a different area, oh gosh, it, again, it’s so hard for me to recommend this because I really cannot, assume the judgment of other people. But, um, other think that poking and prodding, like all around, I don’t know how else to say it, but. ta talking and starting conversations with people that are based around shared interests and values.

And you never know which one of those are going to lead to a connection that is going to mean the world to you.

So it’s a tough one.

Tarro: say, you make friends with someone online, and you realize they’re nowhere near you, would you ever maybe recommend even just saying to that person, like, Hey, I live in, you know, this part of the world. If you happen to know anyone else who’s cool that you like, feel free to share that with them.

Like, could that theoretically be a good way to network with one more degree of, connection?

Laz: without, without a doubt, but vouching for somebody should be worth so little like in, in most contexts, do not rest on the fact that someone vouched for somebody else. But being able to say, to start up a conversation Or if, that connection is allowed, then just have some conversations, talk for a little bit and have no rush behind it.

And if you do share, you know, a spark of friendship with that person, then absolutely. But I personally would feel good about making those kind of connections, asking those questions about people in certain areas because the person can always say, no, I don’t know anybody. Or they might say, I also know somebody who is looking for, connections.

I’ve never met them before. But you might be able to start up a conversation with them pending their permission. so I don’t think that is a, a horrible way to go about it.

Zoey: There’s definitely no shame in openly telling your trusted friends, Hey, I’m looking for more people near me. Keep an ear out if you hear anyone else, and. Having someone do that. Friendship Zoo connection, brokering exchange, we have the whole etiquette. And I think it is important that you really don’t ever want to out someone to someone else.

That’s really a conversation you want to let them have on their terms. But if you have a friend that you’re connected enough with that they’re willing to do a friendship brokering of messages to people that they know gets both of their feelings on meeting someone else. And then once they both get the green flags, then sharing that information, I think that’s a powerful way that you can meet people and do that fairly safely.

I think that’s also the really big power of having these large party group chats for the conventions is I. Everyone in those chats has opted in to being known by everyone else who’s in that chat. So it unlocks so much conversation potential of, oh, you can now talk to your friend about, oh, I didn’t know you also knew so and so, or Can you believe our mutual friend is also a zoo?

And that circumvents it because everyone has affirmatively consented to knowing and being known in that group. one of my favorite messages that people send over and over is, oh my gosh, I had no idea. Oh my gosh, I had a feeling about you. it’s such a joyous experience when people find out that their best friend of five years, both of them have been too afraid to even be suspicious to the other.

But suddenly I’ve even found two couples where I end up connecting with both members of a relationship separately and then finding out that they don’t know about the other.

it’s a really beautiful moment to be able to broker those connections in a way that’s safe and everyone is happy with. So definitely don’t be afraid to ask for that type of thing.

It’s, it’s usually a really awesome thing for everyone involved.

Tarro: Yeah. At a, at Zoe’s party at MFF this year, I was planning on meeting up with someone who I’ve been playing League of Legends with for like five years now. And, we met up, we chatted like the one time, and then we, uh, exchanged telegrams ‘cause we’ve just been talking on discord this whole time. and then I looked at what groups we had in common and it was like, oh.

The Zoo Party group, they’re in that as well. and that was maybe one of the funniest moments of my life, reconnecting with that person and being like, wait a minute. There’s no

way.

So that was super cool and yeah, facilitated, through a party, which was really great.

Steeeve: Yeah, and I know we’ve mentioned this a bunch of times before, but I know we also didn’t mention it here in this episode, and I, I feel that I would be remiss to not mention that, at least on Zoophile. Forum, probably others as well. There are location specific forums, like sub forums where if you want to announce like, Hey, I’m here.

I’m in this area. If somebody from this area, sees this post and wants to message me, my dms are open. And then it’s, it’s a really direct route toward like, yeah, I wanna meet local zoos. I’ve met a lot of people that way and it’s been pretty cool. And if you, if you really wanted to fast track that, you could use one of those to find a gathering of people and then you could meet a whole group of people locally assuming that there is a, a big organized group of zoos nearby.

And if there isn’t, you can organize one if you want to. the options are basically limitless.

Laz: that was actually Zubo was my foray into community. was around

since the Beast Forum days,

Steeeve: Sure. Same.

Laz: But, um, I mean, but even, even on the place based or local section of Zoophile, it is a lot of people searching for immediacy, searching for, you know, who’s an owner, who’s this and that.

and I would caution people of engaging with that, not that, I don’t want to. You know, demonize sex in any kind of way, but I do want to encourage real lasting connections and people looking for friendship primarily. but it’s not, I mean, it’s not the worst way to go about it.

Tarro: Well, I mean, just to, second on that as well. I, because I think it’s worth mentioning when we’re talking about meeting up with people,the kinds of people who are looking for owners, quote unquote, or looking for people to come over for, to receive, like those kind of like very hookup based interactions.

I’m sure some of those people are fine, but just, be aware that those kinds of people are not necessarily in the market for making friends and building connections. they’re looking for a transactional experience, you know, either with you or with your partner or whatever. And you know that that doesn’t necessarily mean they’re evil, but. There are much better ways to

make friends, and I would suspect you’ll make better friends with people who are not going about it that way.

Steeeve: Yeah, and you know,

it’s just, it’s just a tool. So like, okay, Twitter exists and yeah, there’s a lot of garbage on Twitter happening, but

it also happens to be where I promote the podcast and promote all of the zoo stickers on my account, zoo stories, and. You know, most of the time when I get a DM from somebody, it’s somebody who saw one of those posts and says, Hey, I’m responding to your request for input on this topic for the podcast.

Or, Hey, I would like some stickers. Please send them here. But occasionally it’s somebody who just out of the blue says like, send animal picks. you’re like, that’s not at all why I’m here. But, it’s just clear that people have all kinds of different perspectives and theirs are, is valid to them as yours are to you.

But it’s also okay for you to say like, okay, like I, I get that you’re looking for that, but I also get that I don’t have that and don’t want to supply that for

Tarro: Also very okay for you. to not say anything and just delete that dm.

Steeeve: Yeah. You can’t, you can’t, you don’t owe anybody anything. You’re only

accountable

to your own conscience. that’s what’s, that’s what you’re gonna come home to, right?

Tarro: Yeah. I did

want to sort of zoom out a little bit here. it is Pride month. This is our pride episode, even though technically it’s coming out a little late, Sue us. just because I think that this year is a, uh, a sort of complicated year for pride. I think that. In past years, it’s been very easy to look at pride as like, just kind of like a thing that happens and there’s so much discourse around like, I don’t know, like corporate branding and whether or not pup hoods are bad to be at parades and stuff.

But this year, especially with everything going on in the US feels very different. And so I kind of just wanted to get your take both in terms of zoo stuff and uh, normal queer stuff as we labeled it. why is Pride important at all,

Laz: Great. so I think that obviously everybody has their own definition for pride. I don’t think that there’s any sort of centralized, way of thinking about it. But for me personally, pride is when your identity is integral to who you are and your experience. And I think for me, the shift into having a ton of pride and being able to share that pride for being a zoo was I used to think about myself and this part of myself as the thing that’s going to keep me from finding love, keep me from finding friendship and living authentically and in a really real way. And. When you experience times when you realize that not only will people love you in spite of this part of yourself, people will love you because of this part of yourself.

Some of my, I mean really the greatest connections and the greatest joy I experience in my life are when somebody reaches through to you and says, this part of you, this is really important. It’s really meaningful and it’s really beautiful, and you hold that, that understanding like it’s a beautiful stone and you begin to feel it yourself and you say, this is integral to who I am.

This is why I love myself. This part of myself is really important. And for me, that’s what pride is, is that shift towards realizing that this thing isn’t going to keep you from finding acceptance. This thing is the reason why you will be accepted. And I think that there’s like no greater piece of understanding that, that I’ve ever had in my life, that comes close to that.

And I think that being able to move friendships into like a really, real in world arena was a part of that process.

Tarro: that’s so sweet.

Zoey: I think a lot of the reasons why pride is so important are the same reasons why bigots, who hate us are afraid of it so much and don’t want us to have pride is because pride is the first step to not being ashamed of yourself, to getting out Therian networking, to having a bit more of a risk tolerance rather than just accepting that you’re gonna be on an island forever. I’ve long had the tagline that Zoo Pride saves lives just because. It can be an incredibly isolating and depressing experience to feel like you’re never gonna find anyone that understands you truly and never gonna find anyone that you’re able to be open entirely with. And I think that’s one of the biggest tragedies of furry is there are so many zoos in this space walking past each other every day, being best friends with each other for years, decades.

And they’re like ships passing in the night because both of them are too afraid to say anything because it might go bad and the person might go crazy and cancel them and ruin their life. it’s such a tragedy that people. Get into furry and get so close to an avenue that could lead them to a community that loves every part of themselves and allows themselves to decompartmentalize.

But there’s really this fork in the road of some people get into furry meet zoos, move on more into those communities primarily, and other people. They build up a life and a livelihood around furry that’s just too much for them to risk losing and pride is really important to building a life that rewards you, fulfills you is in line with

who you actually are rather than who you’re pretending to be.

And yeah, zoo pride saves lives.

Steeeve: totally

Tarro: I grew up in a, an area that was pretty, not queer friendly, to say the least. And, it, it’s interesting ‘cause even for me as someone that is bi and queer, outside of being a zoo, At the same time, I think I just grew up with that mentality of like, pride is a sin or whatever. and so for a very long time in my life I kind of, I don’t wanna say I rejected the idea of pride, but I was definitely one of those people that was like, well this is stupid.

Like, what’s the point? Whatever, there’s gay people. Hooray. and then I think it really was getting more involved in zoo stuff that made me understand just how I get privileged. I was to have that opinion. and that feels stupid to say considering I, I have experienced bigotry, but like even then it was bigotry on a local level, not a societal one.

And when you have a cause that you’re fighting for and you have a community that’s there with you fighting for it as well, it just. It means so much to be able to have those moments to say, this is who I am and it doesn’t matter what other people think, because I have people that accept me.

And, uh, I don’t know. I just thinking of all the people who have fought for other people’s rights, who aren’t here to celebrate like we can, just gave me such an appreciation for the fact that we’re here and able to do this. and to me that’s what pride is.

Zoey: Absolutely.

The parallels between us and the previous queer movements always give me a lot of strength and resolve, knowing that I. I’m standing here today with the rights that I have because people like me fought like hell for rights that they never got to see.

And I certainly hope we see progress in my lifetime, but I am content, even if I’m pretty sure we will, but even if we don’t, I’m content knowing that if all that my life’s work does is set a field for the next generation to hit a home run, that is, I felt I’ve paid it forward to those queer ancestors that stood up at Stonewall and said, we won’t be silenced.

We won’t be intimidated into isolation where we’re here, we’re gonna network, we’re gonna meet up. It’s powerful.

Tarro: Yeah.

Zoey: And for every person that sees you proud and hates it, there’s another dozen people that see it and feel inspired. Feel, empowered, feel seen potentially for the first time, and I think that’s a huge important feature of pride.

Laz: Yeah. When, somebody sees you do something courageous, whether or not they agree with it. And I’m not saying, come out to everybody, like publicly online or whatever, but when you do something courageous and people see it. Even if they do not agree with it, and even if they will condemn it, they will never be able to deny the bravery.

Like they’ll never be able to unsee somebody living so authentically as that, and they will never be able to get rid of that and that image from their head. And maybe it’ll lead to good in their lives, but regardless of how they feel, they’ll never be able to unsee that image in their head.

Tarro: Yeah, I think even something just like the zoo stickers is so powerful for that because like there’s so many times I’ve seen someone like post a picture of a sticker they found just sort of in the wild and are so excited about it just because it’s some confirmation that there are other people like them out there.

that’s so powerful.

so, uh, I dunno, what do you guys think with the current administration? Are

queer rights doomed?

Steeeve: No, not at all. This is, um, I think this is an Aura Boros. It’s just eating its tail and we’re watching it happen faster than anyone really expected. And it’s, um, it’s just a con man, nepo baby who’s trying to enrich himself and has no moral center and no sense of self. And, um, he just figured out that there was a simple formula that you could use to polarize a certain segment of the dumber people of the population to empower him.

And it’s, it’s an easy 50 50 blend of half lies and half hatred toward somebody. He feels like he can get away with hating. and he just puts it together. And that’s, that’s all of it is, and, um, it’s gonna blow up in his face sooner than later. And I think eventually people will be so squeezed that they just feel like they don’t have any other choice but to revolt.

And, um, right now a lot of. Vulnerable minority groups, really anyone he feels like he can pick on, that’s who is on the receiving end of the hate portion of that equation. And the lies portion is just anything without regard for the consequences or the effects on people. Just any lie, he feels like he can tell people are generously calling them conspiracy theories, but they’re, it’s just lies.

He just lies about everything. Stuff doesn’t even make sense to lie about. He’s lying about. Yeah. So if you just mix half hatred and half lies, there’s a certain dumb, hateful portion of the populace that will vote that guy into office and that’s exactly what happened. But, even the dumbest people will eventually figure out that that guy never worked for them and that their lives are demonstrably worse and, you know, it can’t last forever.

hatred is the only thing that eats its own container. So, I think we’re watching natural consequences come back around and man, I, I hope it happens sooner than later, but

it’s,

It’s messy.

Laz: and in the, meantime, I really think that, as queers, which many of us are in many different definitions, but we should be doing what we should always be doing, which is reaching out to. The people around us and our brothers, sisters, and non-binary friends and sharing resources and making sure that the people around you are taken care of.

Because on the top level, things will ebb and flow. But compassion and kindness to your immediate community will always be, should always be, ideally, I would say a top priority and a cure to most situations.

Tarro: Yeah, and I, I think if you’re someone who’s really, scared about the current political climate, one that’s fair. I don’t mean to to say that your feelings are invalid, but I also think it’s important to contextualize that within America’s political system, it is extremely this or that you have one side or the other side, but that really does not encapsulate the broad spectrum of opinions that exist even within one of those groups.

and so I think if you’re, a left-leaning trans person in Seattle, it can be very easy to say 50% of the country wants to see me dead. and while. They clearly had, you know, I would argue immoral sort of voting, priorities. I think it’s, not that simple. And I think there’s a lot of people on the other side who voted for other issues that are perfectly fine with queer people.

And I think that in elections in the future, we’re going to see a much, a, a, big shift back to sort of policy as normal, once we survive this mess, hopefully. so don’t, uh, things suck right now, but,what’s the line? It gets better. That’s what it is. It does get better. Just try to survive however you can.

Zoey: I was gonna say my philosophy lately has been really hoping for the best, but preparing for the worst. The attacks on trans healthcare right now are pretty scary and I definitely encourage everyone to support your trans friends right now. but times like this definitely are the kind that make me understand the fortress mentality a bit more.

we’re gonna make it though,

Tarro: yeah, these are the times that you wanna go into the fortress, but I think these are also the times that it’s the most important to not do that and to make sure that you are building your community and reaching out and having friends who you can share your experiences with.

Because I think that’s gonna help you a lot more than locking yourself away. But don’t get me wrong, I understand the appeal, but I just think it’s so important, especially right now for, for people to really make those community bonds, both in and out of the zoo community.

Zoey: absolutely. Mutual aid and supporting each other is just more and more important and hopefully we don’t need it, but we better be prepared.

Tarro: Perfect. Well, thanks so much Zooey. Thanks a Liz for coming on. I really appreciate your time. what’s the best way for, uh, people to find you, assuming you wanna be found?

Zoey: yeah. I am out on Twitter at Zooey Zeta dog, love posting funny stuff and chatting with people out there, so feel free.

Laz: Yeah, if you would like to reach out to me, I don’t have a lot of, um, online presence. part of that is by virtue of having a lot of IRL connections with people. But if you have any questions for me, please feel free to email me at my proton mail, which is, lupus Lasley, L-I-S-L-A-Z-U-L [email protected].

and I’d love to, answer any inquiries or questions that anybody might have.

Outro

Tarro: Thanks everyone for joining us on another prideful episode of Zooier Than Thou.

Steeeve: Our next episode is August 9th!

Tarro: Gather your friends and toss that next episode on during a Nice Summer barbecue. It’s sure to be a hit.

Steeeve: You can subscribe to the podcast via our zoo RSS Feed. Just point your favorite podcast [email protected]. You can also check out our extensive bonus content at bonus dot zoo dot. WT F. If you want to show your support financially, head on over to donate.zoo.wtf. Find us on Blue Sky at you Guessed it at Zoo.

Wtf.

Tarro: Find me at at here for the zoo on Twitter, or check out the number one zoo sexual lifestyle and advocacy magazine at Zoo Pub.

Steeeve: And you can find me Steve on Twitter at Stories Zoo. Hit me up if you would like some zoo stickers. Mailed anywhere in the world for free. Our podcast’s website hasn’t changed, and you can find a form there that enables anonymous submissions to the podcast. You can also simply email us at Mail at Zoo wtf.

Tarro: Share this podcast with a zoo that needs

friends.

Steeeve: I’m Steve.

Tarro: And I’m Tarro, and you’ve almost finished listening to Zooier Than Thou Stay Defiant Fellow Zoos, and we’ll see you next time you feel like Howling at the moon!

Both: Awoo!

The Lounge

Toggle: Okay, let’s see, what in dog’s name were these directions again…

If the ZooTT Crew Lounge you want to visit

Free from work, and so exquisite (oh my God…)

Begin at subbasement 32

And choose the book that’s kinda zoo (kinda zoo?)

Subbasement 32, check. Lots of feral porn on the walls, geez. Ah! A totally inconspicuous bookcase! What do we have here… Some crazy titles… Fake Book, Not This One, Placeholder Vol 1, Placeholder Vol 2… ah ha! This Book Is Kinda Zooey Maybe You Should Read It. Suuuuurely nothing would happen if I were to pull on this book like it was a hidden lever revealing that this bookcase is a secret door.

Toggle: Oh, alright! 10ft tall plushies. Blue brown and green tapestries. The comfiest looking couches in the WORLD. THIS. Looks like a place I could play Mario Kart World for a good, long while.

The Stallion: Togs! You made it!

Toggle: Oh, hey, it’s The Stallion!

The Stallion: Good to see you mate! Wonderful to see you getting some fresh air from your office. I was wondering when you’d finally find the lounge! Come, sit, kick your paws up.

Toggle: More than happy to. Oh! Who is this?

Athena: Oh I’m just waiting for my laundry to be done, don’t mind me.

Toggle: Do you… work here?

The Stallion: Mate, mate: This is the lounge. No one works here.

Toggle: I could get used to that! Alright. Couch. Switch 2, hold the staples. Only one thing could make the night even better. You wouldn’t mind if I cuddled up on your lap, would you?

The Stallion: Haha, just for you, and because you asked so nicely, sure. Saddle up.

Toggle: I have about 15 other requests, if you’re feeling indulgent.

Athena: Don’t mind me, just doin’ my laundry.

The Stallion: The night’s still young. Let’s start small and see where it takes us.

Toggle: Well, the first place it’s gonna take us is Whistlestop Summit. Let’s do this!