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Concept: Toggle

Execution: Toggle, Lovecat, Mike the Dog, and Kyon

Thanks to our friends who supported us through thick and thin, and to all the amazing people who contributed thoughts, ideas, and time to this episode!

We love you so much!


Night In Venice by Kevin MacLeod Link: License:

Study And Relax by Kevin MacLeod Link: License:

Opportunity Walks by Kevin MacLeod Link: License:

Music from #Uppbeat (free for Creators!): License code: FUAODWFUDSPFLHF2

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Late Night Talk Show Closing Credits Tv Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Variety Show Segment Intro Tv Music,” “Afternoon Talk Show Tv Theme Music,” “Family Time Sitcom Tv Theme Music,” Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

“Knot of Love” written by Lovecat, Eggshell, and Kynophile Performed by Kynophile

Other music provided by Epidemic Sounds and Uppbeat, or otherwise licensed and used with permission.

Take Dr. Zidenberg’s Current Survey!
Ece Tan designs sex toys for cows to make farming practices more pleasurable

Zoo Community
Epiphiny Pipeworks
Zoo and Me

Sound effects gathered from For a complete list of all sound effects downloaded/used for ZooTT, check out our downloaded sounds.

Other sound effects provided by Epidemic Sounds and Uppbeat and used with permission.

ZooTTin’ the Breeze


Mike the Dog: The Zooier Than Thou podcast contains adult concepts and language and is intended for a mature audience. Minors DNI!


Kynophile: Hey, what can I say?

You’ve got me howlin’ at the moon!

Whoa, don’t you know that love is wild when you’re a zoo?

We’re Zooier Than Thou!

Oh yeah!

ZooTTin’ the Breeze Part 1

Please note that this transcript is automatically generated and contains many inaccuracies

Toggle: Greetings fellow zoos and welcome to another something something episode of Zooier Than Thou. I’m Toggle and I may or may not be naked right now.

Mike the Dog: I’m Mike the Dog, and I’m speaking second. Ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Lovecat: And I’m Lovecat, your furple feline friend who’s feeling more fevers than feisty this fine full moon.

Toggle: Aww.

Kyon: I’m Kion and I’m under your porch because I love you.

Toggle: And we’ll be your hosts for this episode. Episode. Welcome back. Last month was super difficult so we’re taking it real easy this week. We don’t have a script. We just have

Mike the Dog: Ha ha ha! Imagine doing it weekly.

Toggle: Imagine doing this show weekly. Oh my god. That would be wild. No, you cannot. No. Do not suggest it.

Kyon: They’d have to pay tithing.

Mike the Dog: hee hee!

Toggle: Oh my God, more on that later, but for today, we’re just going to have fun and shoot the breeze and read some of your emails. okay. So before we get into emails, I do want to say, we recently discovered that the email form provider for our website that we switched to in order to get our site static, has a spam filter that we didn’t know about.

And we were able to recover 20 emails from spam over the past six months. So, suddenly I’ve been dumped with 20 extra emails on top of what we already had. So all of that progress that we made feels like it got undone. So, hooray!

Lovecat: Gotta keep the ball

Mike the Dog: That’s what episodes like these are for.

Toggle: Right, gotta get through all of them. Alright, without further ado, let’s start by jumping into emails. Who wants to go first?

Mike the Dog: this one is from Wolf Seeks Dog, who says More The Stallion, please! He says, dear Ziti, I’m not into stallions, but I am into the stallion. That guy slaps. Do not forget to invite him again and please let us know when he’ll be next.

Be dropping by. Love Wolfie Dog.

Toggle: For those of you who may not know, The Stallion was the host of our episode,

Pirate Radio, otherwise known as Deer Nanzu’s number two. And, yeah, more The Stallion like a motherfucker, right?

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Kyon: I hope

Mike the Dog: I like the character that worked well.

Toggle: I love, I don’t know, all of our Australian actors, there’s just something about them.

Mike the Dog: well, Australian is one of those good accents, right?

Toggle: Ugh,

Mike the Dog: You can’t go it a good accent? Ugh, The Stallion was very pleased to hear that. they gave a great big nay, when I shared that comment with them. So, definitely The Stallion. We’ll be back in the future. You bet.

Thanks for writing in, Love6Dog. We love hearing from you as much as you love hearing from us.

Toggle: Up next, we have an email from Eggshell, who is on staff, but for some reason decided to use our email form to write us a message anyway. subject line, awoo, I mean, bah, and she says, I love the new podcast art. Boy shucks howdy, I’ll bet she does cuz she’s in it.

Mike the Dog: Hmm.

Lovecat: And heckin cute to boot.

Toggle: Super cute.

Kyon: Oh yeah.

Toggle: Eggshell is our sheepdog in sheep’s clothing on the new logo, and yeah, it’s pretty fucking awesome.

Mike the Dog: You’ve all got poses

Lovecat: 10 out I will say, we were very fortunate to have our artist, who will remain anonymous, contribute, and of course, I’m dumb, and I was just like, hey, you know, Maybe do like, we want it to fit into this sort of way, and, you know, it’s gotta be in this, and they were just like, here, have these dynamic poses around this logo, and I was like, wow, that’s so much better than anything I ever thought of, and that’s why you’re an artist, and I’m a podcast host.

Toggle: So

Lovecat: Yeah,

Mike the Dog: great. Cause your balls are just kind of there and it’s not like in your face.

Toggle: yeah, I mean, it feels tasteful, doesn’t it?

Lovecat: Mm hmm.

Kyon: I like it.

Toggle: I’m super stoked about the new logo, like, beyond stoked. I’ve been wanting to get New art for like two years. You know, I want to keep it fresh and keep updating him. And as much as we love the art that we did before, it was time for a refresh. So thank you very much, Anonymous Artist. You were fantastic and we love you so much.

Um, and I don’t know what else to say other than that, but the art is so good.

Thanks, Eggshell, for, for some reason using the website form to email us.

Mike the Dog: Well, they wouldn’t want to come on the show at all, would they?

Toggle: Oh, no, absolutely not. Not Eggshell.

Mike the Dog: not.

Lovecat: Far too, far too embarrassed to come on such a podcast.

Toggle: Can you imagine?

Kyon: People might actually hear the voice.

Lovecat: What would the neighbors think?

Toggle: What would the neighbors think?

Mike the Dog: Neh.

Toggle: The neighbors!

Lovecat: All right, up next we have from our old friend E. Goldstein, feedback. E. Goldstein says, Just finished listening to the latest episode on Research with a Friend. Excellent job. it was obvious there was a lot of effort put into it, and that effort is greatly appreciated. I thought it was a home run and is one of the best episodes.

Well, thank you very much for saying so you Goldstein. We thought so too. And it did take a hell of a lot of work from especially Toggle and Aqua and our new editor as well. so it’s good to know that it, cleared the stands for you.

Toggle: Absolutely. It was actually really exciting to get to actually, you know, every now and then you have like an ambition and you’re like, you know what? Fuck it. We’re going to go and ask all of these researchers to come participate and we’re going to ask all these other people and let’s see what happens.

And everyone we asked agreed, although some of them didn’t make it into the episode because of scheduling conflicts. That was really cool. so like, I was pumped the whole time, even though it took a massive amount of work. super pumped the whole time. And we definitely couldn’t have done it without our new editor.

My assistant producer if you will, no way I could have gotten it done, without you, so thank you very much. has anyone else here actually gotten to listen to it?

Lovecat: Oh

Mike the Dog: Oh, I did. It turned out really nice.

Toggle: Yeah.

Mike the Dog: And the bonus episodes, too. Ah, my thoughts are really great. It’s really interesting. Okay. That’s a really nice thoughts. Um, yeah, no, It’s actually, it’s funny because, I don’t know, there’s a bit of, um, a bit of a separation, I suppose. You hear about all this, research going on about around the world.

And here’s someone who was doing this out of the University of Saskatchewan. And of course I’m Canadian. And so it’s like, Hey, there’s something next door to me. And I know there’s a bit of, um, what do you call that?

Toggle: It’s like a, like a, it’s real, right?

Mike the Dog: There was maybe even a little bit of trepidation there, because, you know, I could end up on some lists or something when I do the research, right? When I do, when I fill the interviews, I still went ahead. I don’t know. Have you guys all done the latest survey?

Toggle: Kion, have you?

Kyon: me on the spot. No, I haven’t.

Mike the Dog: Ha ha ha. Oh,

Toggle: gotta do it. You

Lovecat: you’re letting survey, Kion. I know,

science, Kion, science.

Kyon: I do.

Toggle: for science,

Kyon: Just like I have to listen to the episode and not just the proofs.

Toggle: not to be confused with fur science. It is for science. And, listeners, if you haven’t taken this study yet, it is being done by one of our interview guests, Alexandra Zydenberg, you can find it on her Twitter. It is linked in the episode notes for the last episode, episode one, Tackling Taboos, A Guide to Zoo Research.

You can find that in the YouTube notes, you can find it on our website in the notes. if you have Apple Podcasts, I believe it’s also in those notes under the credits. it’s everywhere, so you can

find it.

Mike the Dog: I do like how she included the Zeta principles in that one.

Toggle: Right! I would, that was pretty surprising. You know, ExShell hated that survey, but like for me, I felt it was kind of validating, right? I, I felt like someone was asking us questions that were relevant to me.

Mike the Dog: There were questions that needed some interpretation, right? But I feel like they had enough variety in there that it was pretty obvious that you could give them your mind, right?

Toggle: Yeah, I think a lot of people feel like, you know, you get these like, these questions that are, you know, how do you feel about this on a scale of one to five? And you’re like, well, it really depends. What’s the context of that? but if you really like read, like, when I got to that kind of a question, I went back and read the instructions.

And the instructions kind of give you The extra context, it’s just like, you know, what is the potential for this to happen? Not like, is this going to happen every time, or in all of these situations, it’s like, what is the potential?

Mike the Dog: potential is like infinite, right?

Which is a bit of a problem for some people, but, uh, you know, you can say, well, within reason if I’m, if I’m being a reasonable person, I would expect that there’s probably not a problem here. Right.

Toggle: Right, exactly. You just kind of have to go with it, and, and, Like Alexander Zydenberg said on the podcast, it’s like there are some things that you can’t really change. it’s hard to get some of the nuance in there. thing that I thought was really interesting was the differentiation between harm and abuse.

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Toggle: I actually had to go back and like, redo half that, that, a part of that survey.

Mike the Dog: I had to as well. I had to be like, Oh, sorry. I answered some of this in the other one. Yeah.

Toggle: Right. and I just took a moment because there is a comment box where you can just kind of, kind of like speak your mind.

Mike the Dog: We spend so much time just thinking like, they’re talking about any kind of sex when they talk about abuse. And then they talk about harm, and then they talk about just normal sex, and you’re like, Oh, wow, I can just say my mind, see, see what I think.

Lovecat: so I had mixed feelings about the, survey, but, Dr. Seidenberg and her team, what came through was their sincerity. And that counts for a lot, because she was trying to do a study on an extremely understudied and difficult to study population.

And so I regarded this more as, a genuine attempt to kind of calibrate how to study this population. Um, so I think it makes a lot of sense that the survey, was presented the way that it was because, you know, they’re trying to learn how do you study zoos? And I think that that counts for a lot.

Toggle: Absolutely. The, intent behind the survey makes a big difference. and I will say, I don’t know if this is obvious. Um, in the actual final survey, but the real intention here, as I recall, is how stigma affects a zoo’s self esteem.

There’s an entire section where there’s all these questions that kind of relate to that. And some of them feel a little weird in the context of bestiality or zoophilia. And that’s because they basically took the same questions that have been used before to study stigma in pedophiles. And because it’s an established standard that people recognize, they say, okay, we’ll take this thing that has been accepted and use here to kind of compare data and see how this population looks in relation to this one and understand how stigma affects them. So there’s some awkward things there, but the intent. Is, I think, like, the reason for the study and what they’re studying is right on, and that is the idea of stigma and how it affects people’s self esteem in our community.

Lovecat: as we go on and, and more, more studies are done, you know, we’ll, they’ll figure out, the framework that they need because, uh, you know, it’s not a one size fits all framework for each population.

Toggle: Speaking of that, it was, I didn’t realize, I guess I’ve never actually read all of Agrawal’s paper, but I didn’t realize that he was trying to basically take a theoretical framework from necrophilia and just like throw it onto zoophilia without any sort of like actually studying zoophiles.

Mike the Dog: Yeah, it’s like the same scale.

Toggle: right, it’s weird. And you know how widely that has been used? It’s on Wikipedia. It’s everywhere. It’s like Cini’s video mentions Agrawal’s tech


Mike the Dog: I think it mentions, it wasn’t the nine scales. So there was something else.

Toggle: the whole thing about like,

Mike the Dog: Animal role

Toggle: roleplay, right? That’s definitely from Agrawal.

Mike the Dog: Okay. I feel like it was like, not quite one to one.

Toggle: But I do know that the role playing thing is from Agrawal.

Mike the Dog: Right. Uh, who, who did you interview? Uh, Statina? Miss Statina, right?

Toggle: Dr. Statina, yep.

Mike the Dog: Yeah, uh, Stichina, Klamart, and Emmett, I believe, were the ones who, in 2020, uh, wrote Demystifying and, uh, that one contains a, what is it, a six part scale? But it’s, um, it’s a much better scale, and they talk about, like, why they do this and how Agrawals was not very well designed,

Toggle: right, because they actually studied zoos. Right, exactly. It’s a big difference, right?

Mike the Dog: Yeah. Oh yeah. So when I, when I saw the name, I recognized the name. I was like, oh man. Yeah.

Toggle: Yeah, she’s

great. like multiple researchers that we’re talking to. That’s great.

Yeah, doing different kinds of studies from different, like, perspectives. Getting to do, like, the actual interviews. Face to face was super fucking cool. I remember that day that I went and done it, I don’t know why, but my power went out. And so I drove like two hours to a friend’s house because all of everyone’s power was out around me.

I drove to like another town like two in the morning to go do this interview with someone in Austria. Yeah.

Mike the Dog: That’s great.

Toggle: It was worth it. It was a lot of fun. I really enjoyed it.

Lovecat: for writing in, Eaglestein. your emails are always super interesting. And I’ve personally been curious about your name. I don’t know if that’s, , sensitive information, but maybe you could, uh, write it and tell us, , why that moniker.

I’ve always wondered about it.

Mike the Dog: The Goldstein? Yeah, that’s, um,

1980, 80. What was it?

Eight, 19. 84, okay, sorry, geez,

Toggle: One of those 80s years. I don’t remember which one. Doesn’t fucking matter.

Lovecat: 1980X.

Toggle: I mean, I think Love 1988x. I mean, that’s a good question. Lovecat poses a good question. Why, why E. Goldstein? What is the, what’s the deal?

Lovecat: Again, just

Toggle: Write us back. We have several emails. I mean we’ve got like three emails that we haven’t been able to read from them yet, so we’re getting your emails.

Don’t worry. We got them. All right. I’m gonna throw it over to you, Kion.

Kyon: This e mail from Svetlana. Subject furries. Zoo. Hello, everybody. I really love zoos, especially horses. They have very big, attractive dicks. Here I am looking for like minded people.

Toggle: no arguments there.

Kyon: They, it is the one feature that everyone’s eyes get drawn to.

Mike the Dog: was where I

started out.

Kyon: True story. dick is the first thing that ever gave me a spontaneous erection.

Toggle: Wow. Okay, wow. So, yeah. Um, Svetlana, we are inclined to agree. I think you may have confused zoos with animals. I mean, technically, zoo does mean animals, so maybe not. Um, very interesting email, though. Um, if you’re looking for like minded people, uh, to some extent, at the very least, we all do love horse dicks.

So, welcome to the club.

Mike the Dog: he he! Ha

Kyon: You’ll, you’ll find a couple in my closet.

Toggle: Oh, right.

Kyon: Yeah.

Toggle: I’m not gonna, you know, hypothesize about Svetlana’s closet, but closet is very interesting.

Kyon: Uh huh.

Mike the Dog: My closet is full of dog right now!

Lovecat: It’s a closet of wonders.

Toggle: Just dog.

Mike the Dog: And shirts. Well just me, just me. ha ha ha


Toggle: Oh, you’re in the closet? I’m in the closet too!

Closet bros! Hahaha!

Kyon: closets.

Toggle: Zoos and

Kyon: zoos and furry closets. That’s what it is.


Mike the Dog: ya go.

Kyon: Thank you, Svetlana. we always like to put the image of horse sticks in our heads.

Mike the Dog: And draft Horstalian teeths.

Toggle: Drath, Drath Horsesheaths. Hahaha! Mmm, Drath

Kyon: I want to play with one. Wouldn’t it be fun? It’s so warm. Soft. Yes.

Mike the Dog: Oh yes.

So silky, like, how do they?

Kyon: Yeah.

Toggle: So, I would like to propose a small game. What do you think?

Kyon: I’m up for it. All right. All right.

Toggle: It’s super simple. Alright, so, here is a question that I’m going to pose to you, and then we’ll just kind of go and talk about it. So, this is the question that, uh, Lovecat asked me not to ask, which is what animal are you most like, and what animal are you the very least like? So two animals, Lovecat, you have to choose.

Lovecat: What?

Toggle: Good luck! Ha ha!

Lovecat: you owe me for this one.

Toggle: Okay, I owe you.

Lovecat: Uh,

I it. Lovecat, you can

Toggle: go last. as, well, for me, as obvious as it is, a cat, it was actually funny, it was, uh, A non furry and non zooey friend who originally told me I was a cat, because I was just curled up on the couch, and it was kind of a strange experience at the time, because he was just looking at me like, smiling, and with his eyes gleaming, he’s like, You’re a cat!

Lovecat: And I was like, uh, am I? He’s like, You’re a cat, dude. It was years before I understood it myself.

Toggle: what is it about cat that you identify with the most?

Lovecat: I, I don’t even know how to answer that question because it was really spontaneous, , I, , accepted the invitation to go to, um, an event where you, basically the only requirement was that you be your authentic self, and, , To my surprise, I was a fabulous furple cat, and, uh, I can’t tell you what that means or why, it just is the way it is.

Toggle: that is the most zen way to look about it, so very nice. Now for part two of that question, Lovecat. What animal are you the very least like?

Lovecat: my lord.

Mike the Dog: The opposite of purple is green.

Toggle: Okay, so green. Why? Why is the opposite of purple green? Those are complementary colors.

Lovecat: a physicist? I don’t know.

Mike the Dog: it’s cause you know, you got red and blue for the purple. The opposite of that is green. We have three cones and rods of whatever that is. Cones.

Lovecat: if Republican counts as an answer, I would say that. Um, if we’re going to stick more to the rules of the game that you probably

meant, I don’t

know. A

probably something, uh,

Toggle: My animal is socialist.

Lovecat: yeah, probably something like, uh, an octopus, I guess. I would, uh, I would love to be as, uh, strangely capable as Octopi, and I think that I am mostly not.

Maybe every once in

Toggle: You do some pretty fucking cool things,

Lovecat: Yeah, I’m like an

Toggle: but maybe not,

Lovecat: four of its legs.

Toggle: right, as in maybe not eight handed, but you do, you’re pretty good.

Lovecat: Thank you, thank you.

Toggle: I’ll take octopus. Yeah, absolutely. Alright, Mike the dog, I’m going to you next.

Mike the Dog: mean, like you ask what animal would you like, are you most, and it’s like, no, that’s going to be very obvious. Like,

Toggle: know.

I don’t know.

Mike the Dog: I was debating, I was debating being, like, not a dog, right, when I

first started, and it just wouldn’t have worked, it wouldn’t, you know, I’m obviously a dog, everyone who knows me is like, that’s, that’s such a doggy personality.


Toggle: What makes your personality dog like?

Mike the Dog: I don’t know. You know what? Like everyone, everyone was just kind of like amazed at how I’m always just so happy and friendly.

Toggle: Yeah. Yeah. Um, I would say You’re also pretty loyal. You got the, the dog loyalty thing going.

Mike the Dog: I want to go fetch. Right. Like, Hey, fetch me this. And I’m like, yes, yes.

Toggle: Yes, I’ll go fetch you whatever

Mike the Dog: Also everything’s about food.

Lovecat: I

Toggle: Mm hmm.

Mike the Dog: My analogies will all be about food. Uh, yeah.

Toggle: That makes sense. A

woo. A woo to you too.

Mike the Dog: so the harder part is like, what’s the opposite? What’s the opposite of me? I don’t know.

Toggle: What is the opposite of you? What animal? Ha

Mike the Dog: scallops or something, I don’t know, sea slugs? There’s something about ocean animals, isn’t there? That’s like, kind of foreign and like, oppositely.

Lovecat: go here

right now.

Toggle: in the background

is vexed by


Lovecat: from like 13 inches away. He’s just staring at me.

Toggle: Clearly, you are wanted.

Mike the Dog: Yes. You must reach, reach

Kyon: I, I hope he’s getting a hug.

Lovecat: getting scritches. He’s getting

scritches. He’s getting scritches. to. Aw, that’s good.

Toggle: Aww. Ha ha ha.

Mike the Dog: See, you know what, that, that’s the opposite of me. Getting scritches.

Lovecat: I’d

Kyon: I know when doggies grab me by the wrist and lead me away, I know where they’re going. Heh, heh, heh, heh.

Mike the Dog: ha ha ha ha.

In once about their dog would like grab people by the wrist and just like lead them through the door and basically say, like, it’s time to leave.

Toggle: Goodbye. So

Mike the Dog: It’s time to go. Thanks for visiting in time to go.

Lovecat: literally just lead you to wherever he wants you to take him. If it’s out back, he’ll lead you to the door. If it’s to the food, he’ll lead you over to his food bowl, then throw your

hand down at the bowl to give you the hint. Oh

Toggle: That’s

Kyon: a very good communicator.

Toggle: Yeah. He’s learned how to communicate with you.

Lovecat: oh yeah. He’s super duper smart.

Toggle: Wow. That’s really I almost kind of wish that my dog would do that, because my dog will just look at me. And just really think very hard about what he wants. Like

Mike the Dog: you’re like, okay, it’s just like, this is another step here.

Toggle: I can, I can generally, at this point I can figure it out. Like I, I know what he wants, but like, it’s not very effective communication on his part.

Mike the Dog: there was a story I heard online. Where someone, someone would like, the dog just got it in their head that if they need to go outside, they would stare at a door, right? But it’d be any, any door, the closest door, right? It’s just like, they walk in the room one day and like, the dog’s staring at the closet door, and it’s like, oh, shoot, he has to go outside.

Toggle: Yeah, my dog will just stare stand at the fucking food bowl And just stand there, and not make a sound, and just look at you if you’re in the kitchen, and just watch you.

So, you might not even be making contact with this dog, but he’s just standing there.

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Toggle: And just standing there staring, and then you’ll turn and you’ll look at him, and you’ll go, Oh, I see. Obviously, you’re just standing there and wanting food. Okay, great.

he’s a lot more insistent about going outside or going for a car ride.

That’s when he starts making a lot of noise. That’s when he wants to go. He’s like, No, no, no, no, no, no. You’re leaving somewhere and I’m going and we’re going right now. I’m tired of you. You’re taking too long. Let’s go

Kion, I think the answer is obvious, but what animal are you most like?

Kyon: Doggie.

Toggle: You sure fucking are

Kyon: I picked up on dogs from

she’s what was I like 16, 15, 14, somewhere in there and, and was writing stories like that way back then. Uh,

Toggle: Yeah, I will say to your credit Gar told me a story. Gar is, uh, if you’re listening You might remember him from season 5 episode 1 in our interview with Kalzu basically he told me a story where someone, I don’t know exactly what happened. But they were talking about you and they were just like, hey, if you just think about Kion as a dog, everything he does makes way more sense. I think it’s true. I 100 percent think that’s true. I

Kyon: your expertise. I’m not good at that kind of external self reflection, I think, which it may be very dog

Mike the Dog: Which is another

Toggle: was gonna say!

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Toggle: Okay, so next question, Kion, and this is where I don’t know the answer. What animal are you the least like?

Kyon: A seagull.

Toggle: A seagull! Now that, okay, explain, what does that mean?

Kyon: Well, seagulls are nasty and mean and they scream a lot and they snatch food from people.

Toggle: You’re

not a food

Mike the Dog: have you ever snatched food from someone?

Kyon: Always gently.

Mike the Dog: Oh,

Toggle: my dog will gently snatch food from you. Gently works.

Kyon: No, I’ve always perceived seagulls as kind of assholes and I, yeah, definitely not like that.

Toggle: I do not perceive myself as an asshole, so not a seagull.

That’s a good answer. Alright. So, I thought about this, and I thought about it, and I thought about it. And, I go back to whatever episode we did. It might have been shooting the bull from season 3 or 4, where I had said like the animal that I would most want to be would be an otter. And just kind of described what I thought, you know, what it would be like to be an otter. And someone was like, oh, you mean like, that’s what you already do.


you know, kind of hang around, have fun, cuddle, and fuck. And yeah, that sounds like, that sounds like a good time. I think I’m very otter like. I couldn’t think of any other.

And you know, I would love to be rat like, but I don’t know that I actually am. I think otters are closer. Just sort of weaselly. A little squeaky, I don’t mean weasley in the human sense of like, Ooh, that guy is like such a weasel, you know, weasley in the sense of like,

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Toggle: just like really excited to be here, and duking and playing

Mike the Dog: Yeah. I mean, there’s all the stereotypes that don’t really match, right?

Toggle: right. I don’t know. I think people think of weasels that way ‘cause they steal eggs, But not the weasel stereotype, the actual weasel activity.

I think they’re really sweet.

Lovecat: Mhmm.


Toggle: that I’m least like is, God, is giving me trouble. What animal, what animal am I least like?

Mike the Dog: A


Toggle: Do you think I’m least like a mouse?

Mike the Dog: I have no idea. Let’s see. Least. Yeah.

Toggle: I, you know what, I could say mouse. You know, I, I can embody the rat, but I don’t think I could embody the mouse. You know, the idea

Mike the Dog: just like laying, laying in someone else’s food, just like stuffing your face and pooping at the same time? That doesn’t sound like you.

Kyon: You could give him some more opportunities and see what happens. Get him

Toggle: That’s not where I was going with that. No! I was gonna go with the stereotypical demure and quiet and mousy, and that’s not me, I’m the opposite, I’m really loud. Not the p

Mike the Dog: the actual animals. Well,

Toggle: Just laying in your food, eatin the poop Oh

Kyon: diaper.

Mike the Dog: I guess that’s more like, I don’t know.

Toggle: my god, oh dear, okay, well that was fun, gentlemen. Wow, good grief. Well, now we know. I’m not like a mouse. gosh. I think I need a break after that. Oh my god. So we will be right back. up next, we have our sponsors, of course, and then we have a skit written by Lovecat and Eggshell. Oh, skit.

So stay tuned and we’ll be back with more Zooier Than Thou after this.

Mike the Dog: I can’t wait.


Announcer: Support for Zooier Than Thou comes from Epiphany Pipeworks. Check out Epiphiny’s work at his telegram channel @epiphiny_pipeworks, that’s E-P-I-P-H-I-N-Y.

This episode is also made possible by Zooey Voltron! Need to thwart injustice against animals and underrepresented queer minorities? Find the four zoos you think would form Zooey Voltron with you, and form Zooey Voltron today! Visit us on the web at, and subscribe using to get notified every time we’re on the air.

Heated Lamphouse reviews Heart of the Wolfwere

Fairbanks: Welcome back to Heated Lamphouse, where we review the best and worst of what cinema has to offer. This week we’ll be reviewing Heart of the Wolfwere, an adaptation of Jimiel Doghard’s–his, chosen name, of course, which we respect in the utmost–we’ll be reviewing a film adaptation of his classic stage play about life, love, and staying true to yourself even when you’re *not* yourself.

Dayna: I’d hope we’d be ABOVE knot jokes, Fairbanks.

Fairbanks: I should have said no pun intended, Dayna. I won’t be TIED to tired old jokes.

Dayna: Awful, Fairbanks, awful.

Fairbanks: But no need to keep our thoughts in their sheaths, Dayna, so let’s just slide on into to this.

Dayna: (scoffing chuckle) Yes, let’s. The first thing to know going into this film is that it concerns the life and exploits of a wolfwere named Light Wind - a wolfwere being a wolf who is cursed to become a human during the full moon, turning a familiar trope on its head. Contrary to most films and novels concerning wolf-human beings, Light Wind is not a monster, and is not depicted in the horrific mode of classic werewolves in films such as An American Werewolf in my Boudoir and Under the Mid-knot Moon, but is sympathetic and appealing-

Fairbanks: And hot.

Dayna: Haha! yes I thought so too, Fairbanks, he’d sure have me howling at the moon I don’t mind telling you, at least 29 or 30 days out of most months anyway. But an interesting thing about Heart of the Wolfwere is that while it could score easy points relying on the overwhelming sexiness of its stars, four legged, and… mmmm… to an extent two… [getting back to his thoughts: it treads a more emotional path. For instance, Light Wind’s central challenge is in reconciling his suddenly doubled life, and most of that deals with how to make it in the human world so full of ABSTRACT difficulties.

Fairbanks: Right you are, Dayna, and the film does a great job in showing just how he does that, beginning with Light Wind’s less that auspicious introduction to humanity when he’s nearly arrested for, heh heh, shall we say, indecency-

Dayna: It all looked decent to me.

Fairbanks: Took it right out of my mouth.

Dayna: I’ll put it back if you want.

Fairbanks: Later, later. In any case, Light Wind is saved by a passing social worker, who takes him to a local shelter where he’s dressed and fed. From there we follow him month by month as he learns his way incrementally around the city, mute the whole time I might add-

Dayna: Yes! It should certainly be mentioned that Light Wind’s human form–the human form is called Lyle–is played entirely mute by actor Veras, who communicates entirely through gesture, posture, and facial expression through half the film, and is uncannily attuned to the nonverbal communications of those around him.

Fairbanks: It’s literally not far off from like, if you imagined how you wanted someone to gesture something to you in a way that was unreasonably badass and wordless for no reason at all, and then he read your mind and just did it. But, his connection to the human social world, Jenna, a zoology grad student who has been observing his pack, is initially mystified by Light Wind’s monthly disappearances, and is noticing strange stashes of clothing and personal items that pop up seemingly from out of nowhere in the wolf pack’s territories. Like, what? No one is REGISTERED to camp here, she CHECKED, and no one has been SEEN hiking out. Like it doesn’t even matter to her work but she’s curious about it, so she stakes out one night, when she happens to witness his transformation by moonlight, and then everything changes.

Dayna: And how! We watch as Jenna finds her own way through helping and bonding with Light Wind, both in his human and wolf forms, and this to me is really what Heart of the Wolfwere is all about it, the movie’s eponymous heart. We see the two of them in serio-comic fashion as Jenna helps Lyle cope with the curse of being a human, to which we can all relate: finding an apartment, getting a job, doing his taxes. Not openly sniffing people or items at the grocery store. Lyle of course finds all of this difficult.

Fairbanks: It is a curse, after all.

Dayna: Quite, quite. Here’s Jenna teaching Lyle proper table manners:

[clip from the movie:]

Jenna: Like this Lyle, see? *slurp* See? With the spoon, see how I eat my soup with a spoon? No, don’t lap at the bowl, use the spoon. No no, the soup spoon, Lyle! *whimpering*

Fairbanks: It was really heartwarming, and these fish-out-of-water scenes really make us see the love between Jenna and Lyle, and when Lyle finally learns to speak he’s able to tell us about it.

[clip from the movie:]

Lyle: Jenna. I love you. I have loved you for a long time.

Jenna: (sniffle) Lyle, you already told me a thousand times, with your actions. How you cared.

Dayna: The fascinating dynamic between these two is taken to another level as Jenna spends more and more time with Light Wind and understands that Lyle is truly animal despite all the layers of superstructure their human life is composed of, and that the same is true of herself. We see them living in the wild together, Jenna learning to live in a pack, mark and defend their territory, run down deer, and so on. And so their love grows, culminating a truly beautiful song which I for one think is the film’s zenith.

[Clip of The Knot of Love Ties Our Hearts Together]

Lyle: And though your heat is sweetly subdued,

It’s you I choose to carry my brood,

We’ll rove our groves and bay at the stars above

Our hearts are tied evermore in a knot of love

Dayna: I can feel the passion swelling up inside me just listening. One of film composer Phil Cookie’s finest scores, without a doubt.

Fairbanks: So, overall, what do you suppose we rate this cinematic work?

Dayna: I think nothing lower than 5 stars, two thumbs up, and ten out of ten, would be becoming of any film critic worth their salt.

Fairbanks: I agree, Dayna. Five stars. Two paws playfully in the air as we romp around wagging. Ten out of ten.

Dayna: Thank you for joining us, on Heated Lamphouse. Where we review the films that MATTER. As zoophiles.

Fairbanks: Amen. As zoophiles, we rate this wolfwere film, perfect. No notes.

ZooTTin’ the Breeze Part 2

Please note that this transcript is automatically generated and contains many inaccuracies

Mike the Dog: Welcome back, everyone. My name is Toggle. I, I’m not even close to the voice. Ha ha ha

Kyon: the cadence is all wrong

Toggle: I just want you to know that, so. That’s our introduction. Alright, great. So thanks for bringing us back, Toggle. I hope you enjoyed our skit. Let’s jump into our second half. We actually have some more emails for you. who wants to go first?

You know what? I’ll go first. So, our next email is going to come from Hoki, whose subject line is Zoo’s Line. Hokey writes, Hello Zoot Crew! You are all absolutely delightful and I hope your day so far is swell. Zoos line was maybe the funniest thing I’ve ever listened to and I’ve shared so many clips with friends. It made my day and several days after that, so thank you for being hilarious.

Presently, I have nothing useful to say. I just wanted to note that, to Aqua, you have a really nice and calming voice and I am always jovial to hear you on the show. Also, to Toggle, your laugh is so contagious and consistently made whatever bit you were laughing at ten times funnier.

Mike the Dog: It’s true.

Toggle: The episode holds a special place in my heart. Thanks for sharing your whimsy with us all. Now, a hypothetical question for anyone and everyone. Say you were able to directly communicate, think either verbally or some sort of telepathy, with any one species of non human animal, or the once more hypothetical basis that you both understand can comprehend spoken language. What species would you choose? What species, y’all?

Mike the Dog: I mean, the ones we spend most time with at Imagine. Dogs for


Toggle: dogs for me too, just as a matter of practicality, like, am I gonna be able to use this skill? How often? It’s gonna be dogs.

Kyon: am, of course, biased towards dogs, it occurs to me that it might be useful to be able to communicate with a horse. I seem to have dog communication down pretty well.

Toggle: Right.

Mike the Dog: You basically get a free, a free communication skill.

Kyon: Hmm, yeah.

Toggle: But if I could just be like, there’s a bunch of dogs running around my neighborhood, and I could just be like, Hey, fucker, get out of the goddamn road! You know, that would be really useful.

Lovecat: Yeah. True, true.

Toggle: I don’t know what it is about the dogs in my neighborhood, but they love standing in the street, and they’re just so lucky that everyone in the neighborhood slows down for them.

Because, in other neighborhoods I’ve lived in in the past, there would be no slowing down. I don’t know what’s wrong with these dogs.

I want to tell them to get out of the street. And explain to them why they need to be out of the street. I think that’s what I would I would love to be able to explain to my dog, like, Look, this is why you can’t do these things. As opposed to just communicating, like, hey, don’t do that, or, you know, we can communicate on some level, like, Here’s what you should and should not do, or you know, this is what I want, etc. But like, the explaining, like, hey, I need you to understand my experience, which I cannot share with you. That would be useful.

Mike the Dog: Kind of the barrier we face is like with pet ownership, right?

Toggle: You just have to trust me. And I mean, for the most part, they’re willing to just trust you, I guess, if, you know, you have good rapport.

Lovecat: I think if I was gonna go with, , fascinating, rather than useful, I would go back to the octopus because I think that their experience must be so vastly different from ours. It would probably just be amazing to be able to communicate in a way that we both understand and you know, able to talk about abstractions and I think that would be pretty rad.

Mike the Dog: What lives the longest?

Lovecat: What lives The

longest? about like being able to talk with maybe the turtles or the parrots. Anything that’s like over a hundred years old

Toggle: What

shit have you seen? Yeah.

They give you some wisdom about fucking flying or some shit, and you’re like, that’s not useful for me.

Mike the Dog: Or they’d be like, it’s six o’clock, it’s six o’clock. And you’d be like, wait, no, I didn’t actually have this skill. That’s a real parrot.

Toggle: That’s dumb.

Mike the Dog: Why did I choose to be able to speak with a parrot when I already can?

Toggle: That’s hilarious.

Mike the Dog: So turtles it is.

Toggle: Excellent choice.

Okay, well, I just want to say, Hokie, thank you for writing in. Thanks for listening to that episode, because I’m so glad that someone really liked that. I always worry about our hiatus episodes as being kind of lame. , but it’s great to hear that you really enjoyed that one. , and thanks for the question.

That was entertaining.

Mike the Dog: It was good fun. Actually. I enjoyed that episode. I was in it.

Toggle: Yeah, it was, it was tough. You know, there was a lot of editing for that episode.

Mike the Dog: A lot of ums and ahs.

Toggle: Yeah. A lot of like, like there was some practice as well. Like, like we would practice to see what, what would come out of it. just to kind of get into character and figure out what we were going to be doing and then actually going into it and. Clipping the shit out of it. It was a lot of editing.

Mike the Dog: You’ll see,

Toggle: We’re not naturally funny is what I’m saying. It’s all editing.

Mike the Dog: It was all heavily scripted, you know, the entire thing front to back.

Toggle: Our improv episode, heavily scripted.

Kyon: I don’t want to take it up with the script writers

Lovecat: Our next email comes from Pan the Goat. Subject, you mentioned tithes in the last episode. Pan the Goat says, Good day to you, Zoot. I recently came across the Tor Project’s donation page. I really love their webpage setup for a donor’s ability to donate just once at their leisure with anonymity.

Tithing is such a sacred spiritual practice, and for me, as I understand it, for one to tithe. That means that the recipient has been a source of spiritual food as a edifying source of encouragement, and a beacon of light and hope.

That’s the spiritual storehouse in essence. This podcast has been a great source of comfort to and for me, a beacon of hope. Your very intro message that we are loved is recognized by me to be a perfect example of embracing the other as the Christ consciousness timeline that you are all aligned with.

From my understanding, yeshua would have done the same. The original Christ loved fiercely without condition. He, I believe, however, was a diviner by means of his membrum, utilizing the vagina of a donkey like Balaam, and of course, original Adam, in addition to Cheops, whom I believe to be the Hermes Trismegistus Thoth, the Atlantean king, the builder of the pyramids at Giza, who loved mares.

Realizations developed with immense synchronicity for me after listening to Zoophilia and Religion and Get Help, featuring Hanne Maletzky. I have a copy of her famous book, signed by her, of course.

She is a blessed woman. I am grateful to her and for her courage and work in the world.

Also summarize my point, that if you could make it more simplified to donate at my leisure just once, whenever I can, I will gladly give a tithe of 10 to 20%. I would love it if your current donation page could look a little more like the tour projects donation page, if at all possible. Of course, anonymity is vital, and an important quality in the donation process as well.

A sacred anonymity. My very best to Zoot. P. S. The Christ dwells as unconditional, all inclusive love. It’s the greatest power in this universe. Namaste.

Toggle: Namaste indeed. Okay, so first of all, I need to explain that when I said tithing, I was totally joking. We don’t expect people to tithe 10 20 percent of their income like the church. So, you are by no means required to do that. But,

Mike the Dog: you could.

Toggle: You could!


Lovecat: to say, don’t do it.


Mike the Dog: it will be easier to donate 10 percent if it was a one time thing.

Toggle: Right, right, right. Okay, so, two things. One, thank you so much for the email, actually. It’s very wonderful to know that we have been that long. Beacon of Hope and Comfort, so I’m glad to hear that. As far as the donations page, so the donations page is set up through, LibraPay, and we don’t have a lot of, control over how that’s set up.

We do need to update it, like, I think the, goals that are listed there are way out of, order. So we need to figure that out, but you can donate one time. I’m almost certain there’s an option by itself, but also

if you were to do a subscription and then just cancel the subscription after one time, that does work as well, um, if you can’t figure out how to just do it one time.

but we’re kind of bound by the way the page is set up because we use them specifically because they are anonymous for. Everyone involved. So you don’t see our information. We don’t ever see your information. it does allow for subscriptions. I don’t believe it requires it, but again, you can cancel immediately after your first payment.

Totally fine. We’re not gonna fuss at that. and then donate whenever you can

Lovecat: think it’s pretty

wonderful that you want to, uh, help support the podcast. this is a community effort, that is all just our own work and own time. And that’s basically how it works. You know, anybody who can. throw a couple of pennies our way, definitely helps us do this, you know, because there aren’t any other options, you know, either the community makes it happen or it doesn’t, and, anybody who gives, and anybody who even wants to, even if they can’t, we appreciate all of you.

Toggle: Yeah, absolutely.

Mike the Dog: Yeah. There’s a bunch of services out there that, do individual little things helping our production quality. And so a lot of what we do, you know, there’s, there’s little tiny price tags attached here and there, , monthly, or I guess maybe it’d be usually a yearly cost. So having a kind of income stream.

Mostly monthly having an income stream monthly, really helps us in that regard because it lets us know exactly what we can rely on like month to month throughout years.

Toggle: everything they said is absolutely correct.

I will say, we do have a little bit of store that we’re going to start using to do something really cool. You may have noticed that a transcripts section has popped up, on the last couple of episodes. We’re really going to, to jump in and dive into actually trying to get everything transcripted now.

it is going to be a large project. It is going to require that we think about how we are doing things in a way that we haven’t had to think about before. so it’s going to take some time, but we’re diving into that. And hopefully, finally, for everyone who’s always asked for transcripts, we’ll have that.

It’ll help with search engine optimization. It’ll help with, People who are hard of hearing, it’ll help with people who are not necessarily hard of hearing, but have a hard time hearing what we’re saying anyway, et cetera, et cetera. So,

Mike the Dog: yeah. It’d be hard to

parse language.

Toggle: or people who don’t have as their first language can then, you know, take the text and translate it.

Mike the Dog: Oh, I’ve always had a problem with songs too. I’ll look up song lyrics while I’m listening to them. Cause I have no idea what they’re saying, but

Toggle: some people just have audio processing issues in general, so I get that. And we want to make sure this is as accessible as possible to the largest audience possible. so that is a big project and it’s only possible thanks to the donations that we’ve received. So thank you very much, for everyone who has donated, and we look forward to

Mike the Dog: by listeners by like you. Yeah.

Lovecat: Thank you so much for writing in Pan the Goat. your generosity is beautiful and I can tell by reading this, you are a truly beautiful soul. nama. Stay to you,

Toggle: Namaste.

Mike the Dog: So this next email, came in two parts this is from Tailsworth the Horsesky, , who wrote in a clarification later. So we’ve kind of, put it in line with the other one. and his email had like two different parts to it. So I’m going to read the first one. We’ll talk about that. subject line is just podcast and Tailsworth the Horsesky says, I just found your site. And I really didn’t know there were any podcasts like this out there. I’m listening to your first episode now, and I just heard about a fellow in the UK, I think, who creates sex toys for cattle. From what I read, he does this not to exploit the cows, but to bring to light how we are using cows against their will, and that cows have feelings and desires beyond what humans acknowledge.

What is your take on this? There’s also a lady who does something similar to try to re imagine how we work with livestock and make invasive procedures less stressful and painful for the animals. Uh, here’s the links to the articles. He pasted the links and I’ve been told not to read out

Toggle: No!

Mike the Dog: the numbers and letters and the Gucci referrers.

Toggle: No!

Mike the Dog: These are some very fun URLs. Anyway, and after that, he writes, I’d also like to know if there are support groups for zoophiles because I would just like some honest folks to talk to and get folks takes on certain things. I can’t be the only one that feels shut out, right?

Toggle: Alright. Let’s start with these bovine sex toys. Uh, we did look at the article and um, it is very interesting.

Mike the Dog: Yeah. And there were some arguments made in the article too, about, you know,

the, the

use of

such toys. Yeah. It’s,

it’s fun. Cause on the face of it, I think, I think there’s different, uh, uh, concepts, What would you call it? Different reasons people might do this.

Toggle: Ys, or Essay Tan, has created these, bovine sex toys. The last bit here is what I wanted to pull this up for, but it said, uh, if these products were to be adopted at face value, there would definitely be a risk of justifying industrial farming practices or even making them trendy.

I can imagine new pleasure certified farming label to assuage people’s guilt. On the other hand, we are already justifying these practices, so maybe it wouldn’t be so terrible to make them more pleasurable if we will continue as we are. It is an ethical pickle. The basic statement here is that basically, all of these factory farming sexual interactions are super invasive and non consensual and non pleasurable in a lot of ways.

And the idea of the dildos is not necessarily just to be pleasurable, but also to highlight in a discussion, that animals, Feel pleasure and pain and we don’t consider those things, especially for our factory farmed animals like cows. So that’s kind of the premise here.

Kyon: I certainly think it’s a good thing to be nice to the cows.

Um, I’m a little puzzled at the, shape they chose.

Toggle: right. I saw that.

Kyon: I mean, I know what a bull’s penis looks like, and it does not look like that.

Mike the Dog: Well, a bull isn’t pleasurable. Who knows?

Kyon: Uh, what? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

Mike the Dog: see cats discover the secrets, right? And that’s why they don’t need much penis. you gotta have the nibbles, the nibbles at the end.

Toggle: Oh my god,

Mike the Dog: You gotta have the nubbins at the end, otherwise it’s no good.

Toggle: she has some like some like Ribbed for your pleasure gloves. That’s a little strange. I’ve never enjoyed ribbed condoms myself. I think they hurt.

Kyon: Yeah, they, they’re quite, quite uncomfortable.

Toggle: They add a lot of friction, and I don’t know why that’s fun. So, sorry, Lovecat, if you were to have a cat’s penis, which you don’t,

that would not be fun. Yeah,

Kyon: Toggle’s ass is too sensitive for a cat penis.

Lovecat: Well, I, I got one of the smooth ones, but it, it’s very easily accommodating.

Kyon: Oh, there you go. I

Mike the Dog: Design graduate. I don’t suppose they worked in, in, like, factory farming, in animal husbandry. Um,

Toggle: actually know if these are really designed with the thought, like, actually knowing the science of


Mike the Dog: right? Like, if it’s just some art thing.

Toggle: right, they have like, like a graduate, like, it’s like a trainer dildo, like, you know, It’s thin, it’s like thinner in the base, but it’s got a plug, and then like the next level’s a little wider with a plug, and then the back one’s even wider

Mike the Dog: Yeah. It’s got a couple of like football shapes where it kind of gets thicker and thinner and thicker and thinner.

Toggle: yeah, I don’t, I don’t know if those are actually fun for

Mike the Dog: Flared base. It doesn’t have a flared base. So it’s going to get stuck

Toggle: It’s

just a lose the dildo and the cow.

Mike the Dog: Yeah. I get, I get the feeling. Yeah. They, they understand kind of like. How animal husbandry works and the coming from that angle of, of animal husbandry.

Toggle: Right, they get, they understand the problem for sure, but I don’t, the solution seems kind of tongue in cheek. I don’t know if it’s actually gonna bring more pleasure or not,

I don’t

Kyon: and then their artificial insemination augmentation is like, we’ve figured out how to do cum tubes already, and it’s not like that. It’s like this chopstick through the middle of the thing. Like, that does not look comfortable.

Toggle: so I guess we have mixed feelings about the idea?

Mike the Dog: yeah, in the article here, it mentions also about, how it could contribute to what people, , feeling better, like whitewashing, the exploitation of animals by saying that it’s like a pleasurable thing and like, oh, okay, well, I feel better about that now because, because there’s pleasurable now while it’s still like sexually controlling as part of a commercial enterprise.

Toggle: Yeah, I think the idea of highlighting this is good, but I don’t think it’s actually a practical way of handling the situation.

Kyon: A plus for art,

D for our dildo design.

Toggle: D for actual silicone dildo design. Go back to Bad Dragon and start

Kyon: Yeah, yeah, they’ll help you out, they’ll show you how to make a bowl.

Mike the Dog: he, he, he, he, live castable. And then,

Toggle: It’s just a long, thin rod.

Kyon: Yeah.

Mike the Dog: but I mean, you know, ask, ask people what their favorite bad dragons are. It’s not going to be a human shaped penis. Right.

Toggle: Eh, fuckin mend to that.

Mike the Dog: So like, Maybe cows want to get dicked down by a dog.

yeah, you have to like pull them right. You slowly kind of figure out what, what they like more.

Toggle: pull the cows.


is a terrible this sounds like an extensive study,

Mike the Dog: You need some focus groups. we need an extensive controlled double blind study.

double blind. You can’t really, I don’t know. You just like pick up a toy. You kind of like you. Is, is


Toggle: don’t even look. You just cover

Mike the Dog: you don’t even look at how are you going to use the toy? If you don’t know what it looks like, you gotta,

Toggle: You can’t see it and neither can the cow.

Mike the Dog: yeah.

Toggle: blind. Wow. No, I don’t think this is a good idea. Like, that’s a terrible idea.

Kyon: it’s a terrible idea. Yeah.

Toggle: Oh, no. Okay. So, mixed feelings. Uh, great in spirit. Maybe not so much in practice. Now for your second question about zoophile support groups. Um, ZooCommunity. org exists. there are telegram groups that exist. if you happen to be a furry, I might, I might, I suggest some feral sticker chat or something like that, where,

you know, it’s not necessarily zoo, but you know, it’s feral, which is adjacent and they’re not going to like beat you up about it.

Mike the Dog: let’s say for work groups tend to be really nice too. Cause, um,

you get out of the, solicitation kind of mindset. So yeah, um, zoo community, first of all, the main form is PG 13. So that kind of, keeps it in that sort of community atmosphere. And, Sigma’s Feral Safe for Work Telegram chat is pretty good for, yeah, if you, if you are zooey, maybe furry, but also just a person who wants to talk about whatever random geeky things you like to talk about, it’s an eclectic kind of group where everyone is just themselves.

Toggle: Yeah. I think the small groups tend to be better for support anyway, cause you, you kind of get an idea of who’s who and you, you kind of form a bond. They can be a lot quieter. There’s not always a lot of activity going on, but maybe that’s also better cause you’re not getting lost in an undated with a bunch of messages.


Mike the Dog: I can still read through them. Actually. I don’t know. It doesn’t take that, that long. It depends. It depends how much, writing we’re doing. Sometimes I, I write really long messages and sometimes Sigma writes really long messages. And then, uh, that can take up hours of my day. It’s fun though.

I like, I like thinking about these concepts and really just drilling down and having these discussions, even if it does take hours,

because in the end, we

come out,

with more.

Toggle: Okay, uh, we also found out that zooey. pub has a Discord server that’s okay with the Discord people, because they don’t violate any of the terms of service, so that apparently is a good place. Definitely PG 13. I have a feeling they kind of allow just about anyone to come in, I haven’t been in there myself, but, Taro’s a good person, and, apparently if they’re able to abide by Discord’s rules, there’s probably not anything nefarious happening there, so I think you would be safe there, and

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Toggle: supportive group,

Mike the Dog: You certainly get less, uh, content solicitations over there

Toggle: 100%.

Mike the Dog: you’re on discord, like on telegram, you get a lot of people just searching for videos, right?

Toggle: ugh,

Mike the Dog: And that tends not to happen on discord. Like those spaces are really shut down. So that’s not what it’s for. That’s not what you’ll find there. That’s not what people will be asking for.

Toggle: hmm. Telegram can be a bit of a Wild West unless you’re in very specific chat groups and networks. So,

Mike the Dog: Yeah. Yeah. Discord seems to be. So

Toggle: so yeah, zoo community, discord, specific telegram groups. Those are the places you’re gonna find your community

Mike the Dog: thanks for writing in, Tailsworth the Horsky, and maybe you can submit some of your own dildo designs for those cows.

Toggle: I don’t know. What does a horse’s dick look like? Maybe they should self cast.

Mike the Dog: Yeah, I wonder if mares could use some dildos too.

There’s a good market out here for this stuff.

Lovecat: Take the knot, take the

flare, why not both?

Mike the Dog: Yeah,

Toggle: Amen.

Lovecat: um, I

Kyon: someone’s been looking at the exotic erotics content of my closet.

Toggle: All right. We got one more email. Let’s go ahead and knock it out

Kyon: Okay, then. This knee mail is from Curious Nonzoo Corgi. The subject of curious non zoo listeners question. Clean? Hi there! I’ve been listening for this whole winter break back home from college. I was an anti zoo girly, but I’ve come to a neutral stance and understanding upon listening, initially out of curiosity, but now from pure enjoyment. Sidenote to Toggle, I love your voice, oh my god, thank you for existing. I think everyone associates you guys with zoo sadists, and honestly, that’s messed up.

You all have a love for animals that non zoos can’t experience, and it’s something beautiful. I’m sure your dogs are all free runners, house cuddlers, and treated with the best food and belly rubs, and your horses are brushed better than any non zoo’s horses and given only the best hay from the mountaintops of heaven, and so forth for any animal companions and partners of yours, and I admire it.

Honestly, the consent thing I was worried about too, but understanding that you all know when the animal is interested versus disinterested makes the whole difference. Yay, I can’t feel that love for animals. I actually suffered from sexually based OCD since the age of 8. Some of the intrusive crazy thoughts were about sex with animals, and that I was going to hurt my friends sexually, but that’s not relevant. When I realized I had OCD and got treated with medication, phew, all these feelings went away. So, no, I am not a zoophile. In fact, as I mentioned before, I was an anti zoo for a long time, I’m ashamed to say, but I am a neutral supporter, smiley. I had this thought last night when I couldn’t sleep, so please excuse me if it’s weird. When it comes to the in house partners like dogs, cats, bunnies, etc., what’s up with the scent? When my dog runs outside and she comes back in, she reeks. In my opinion, and in my family’s opinion, she just smells so bad sometimes, so we give her a little bath. Do you enjoy your partner’s animal scents? Or do they bathe regularly?

I know some animals, like hamsters, can’t be bathed frequently, so I mean species that can, of course. this is a sincere question. I’m genuinely curious what it’s like. Is the scent enjoyable? Or are you repulsed too and end up showering them a lot? Or with them? Just really curious about the hygiene aspect.

Is the sex clean too? What’s going on? Again, if this is weird, don’t have to address it on your show. Feel free to scoodle along, but if you can answer it comfortably, that would be awesome, because I am very, very, very curious.

Mike the Dog: Hmm.

Kyon: Thanks from Curious Nanzu Corgi.

Toggle: Thank you for your email there It’s kind of neat to hear that, you know, someone who went from anti zoo to, you know, neutral supporter Through the course of listening to the podcast, that’s really neat to hear.

Mike the Dog: . In the first couple paragraphs, they mention that zoos have this unique love for animals and that It’s really not something that’s unique to zoos. I think everyone can really appreciate their pets more than they do.

I think a lot of people in society don’t really give them the consideration that they could, and I think they miss out a lot. The things that they would otherwise see.

Toggle: Right. I also think it’s dangerous to assume that all zoos horses are brushed better than any non zoos horses

Mike the Dog: It’s certainly

Toggle: the best hay for them. Right. You know, zoos are people too, and they come from the same culture. and a lot of that stuff is, you know, some people come by naturally.

A lot of people have to kind of unlearn a lot of stuff. Right. and so you kind of have to like, come to some understanding before you’re like, oh no, my horse can only have the best hay from the mountaintops of heaven,

you know?

I think there are plenty of non zoo humans who treat their animals like kings and queens and princesses, and I think there are plenty of zoos who have really great relationships with their animals maybe, but, Maybe they can’t afford to, you know, make their dogs gourmet meals every day, you know.

I know some zoos that do this, by the way, that literally, like, they cook meals for their dogs every day. I don’t do that. I can’t. Um, but I do share my food with my dog, but he also has his own food,

you know, I think everyone just tries to do their best, but I, I worry about, like, putting out the image that, like, we’re better than everyone, you know, and that all of us are, are these incredible people who do all of these incredible things, and that, I don’t know, and that no one else but zoos is, are able to do that, you know what I mean?

Mike the Dog: Yeah. I think half of our goal is to simply help humanity like in total come to better terms about animals.

Toggle: Right,

Mike the Dog: I think a lot of our goals as zoos really can’t be met until that point.

Toggle: oh yeah, absolutely, and I think all of us are also striving to be better than we are already today,

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Lovecat: As far as treatment of your non human friends and family goes, it, it basically is the same as with, um, Human beings, the more you put in, the more you get out. if you understand and, and actually, base your behavior on the understanding that everyone else’s life, regardless of species, is just as rich and important to them as yours is to you, then you’re able to take their worth.

You know, wants and needs and comfort and all that into consideration more than you would if, other people were just, other people that maybe you, need to get something out of, or just other objects in the world that happen to walk and talk and behave and, and things like that, think it’s the same thing with nonhumans, at least where I’m coming from, and it can be really difficult to overcome, the sort of, You know, human, animal, and pet owner, and pet.

dynamics, that we’ve all been, indoctrinated with since birth. but the more that you pay attention to how you, perceive them and how much you actually act on your respect for their own intrinsic being, the better relationship you’re going to have with, humans and with non humans.

Toggle: 100%, absolutely, and I think we’re all, striving to be better every day and do better, and I think that maybe Zoos come by this easier because they’re forced to question, naturally, the paradigm of human animal relationships that exists in a way that people who aren’t zoos don’t necessarily have to do, like they’re not forced to reckon with it in the same way that zoos are,

Mike the Dog: Geez. yeah. In 2020, I was kind of like forced to reckon with it. And what I came away with, what I asked myself, honestly, whether I was allowing harm just because of what I wanted, that’s when I stopped buying meat. Like I recognized there was nothing wrong with me being a zoo, but there was actually something wrong with me, you know, going to the supermarket and paying for someone to slaughter something.

Toggle: I kind of came to Jesus on that very much in the similar way, like, you know, if I’m going to be attracted to animals, why would I eat the people I’m attracted to, right? Even if I don’t necessarily think cows are hot personally,


mean, I don’t know. I mean, yeah, okay, objectively. But subjectively, they’re not necessarily my thing, you know?

Lovecat: Yeah.

Kyon: I can’t say I’ve gotten to know any cows yet.

Toggle: Fair enough. maybe if I knew a cow, my feelings would change.

Mike the Dog: I’d like to get to know a pig, but there’s something about knowing how the insides of their bodies feel. That’s kind of like terrible,

Toggle: What? What are you talking about?

Lovecat: What are you

talking about?

Mike the Dog: let’s talk about a ham.

Lovecat: Oh. Ahem.

Toggle: I didn’t know what the fuck you were talking about.

Kyon: Like, inside of their bodies, you

know how

they feel? What?

Mike the Dog: I know, but I like, it should be something kind of weird and you know,

Toggle: Yeah, it’s weird to eat bacon and then hang out with a pig, right?

Mike the Dog: one of my bacon’s had nipples on it

Lovecat: Oh God, don’t tell me that.

Toggle: What?

Lovecat: hmm.


Mike the Dog: how, like, yeah, I don’t know. Uh,

Toggle: Don’t say that ever again.

Mike the Dog: I mean, part of the reason is I don’t do that anymore. Right.

And it’s


Toggle: god,

Mike the Dog: but there’s long term effects for all this too.

Toggle: I stopped eating, uh, chicken, on, on the bone when I got a vein one time. I was like, that’s too much, that’s too real, I can no longer separate this,

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Toggle: cognitive dissonance is broken,

Lovecat: .

I’ve never been around cows or pigs either, though I’d love to because, I’ve seen videos on, Twitter of, you know, cows and pigs playing. Um, you know, people who keep them just to, to have them around, you know, and seeing them, you know. Able to just, be well and be happy and, and just do their thing is, pretty amazing actually, you know, you realize

how much personality and what, yeah, and what a capacity for, the enjoyment of life and affection and, just happiness that they have, you know.

Toggle: Yeah, yeah, I really would love to hang out with a pig, I think I would love to hang out with a cow in, in the best circumstances.

Lovecat: Mhm.

Toggle: much in the worst.

Lovecat: Mhm.

Kyon: I don’t think anyone wants to be at the slaughterhouse.

Lovecat: Yeah.

Toggle: Oh, not even the slaughterhouse workers.

Okay, we’ve veered way off

Kyon: yeah.

yeah. Let’s, talk about the scents. Cause, I love scents.

Toggle: Yeah, you know, if you’ve listened to our podcast in the past, hmm, year or so, you might have noticed how much Eggshell writes about their dog’s smell in very glowing ways. I don’t know if you’ve noticed that. It’s in her poetry, it’s, in her skits. She really loves the way her dog smells,


Mike the Dog: She never describes it either, does she? Just kind of like, oh, the smell.

Toggle: I think she gets pretty close. It gets pretty erotic sometimes.

Mike the Dog: Oh yeah.

Kyon: smell of dogs.

Toggle: Right. I think there have been dogs whose smell I don’t like. But I like my dog’s smell, um,

Lovecat: Haha.

Toggle: when he’s stinky,

Mike the Dog: If they run around outside, and then they come back in, and then they’re suddenly stinky, that sounds like something else.

Toggle: yeah, it sounds like maybe your dog rolled in poop, which is different,

Kyon: dogs love rolling in scents. That’s how they bring home stories to tell you.

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Lovecat: That’s, yeah, hahahaha, that’s like a, that one.

Mike the Dog: Let’s wash this story away. Hehehe.

Toggle: I do love animal scents just in general like ferrets, you know, allegedly a very smelly animal I love the smell of a ferret


Kyon: They are definitely distinct.

Toggle: I like the way that my dog smells I’m very interested in the way horses smell although I haven’t gotten to smell that yet But it is in my mind like something that I want so maybe There is a difference for there’s got to be a zoo that’s like, Ugh, animals stink.

I want to bathe them before we have sex or something.

Mike the Dog: Horses smell like sour rosemary.

Toggle: I don’t know what sour rosemary smells like.

Kyon: How would you make rosemary sour?

Mike the Dog: Uh, by peeing

on it,

I suppose.

Toggle: What?

Mike the Dog: don’t know. That’s probably what I’m smelling. All the horse piss everywhere. That’s a distinctive, yeah. Distinctive smell around horses.

Toggle: You should just go up and smell their flank.

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Toggle: like

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

It’s true. I don’t think I’ve ever like been right up close to a horse.

Toggle: but you know, I’m also kind of biased. I like the way guys smell too, like actual human guys.

Lovecat: Mhm.

Toggle: like that

Mike the Dog: Oh, there’s like a several different smells though, that you, like, it depends on, I don’t know, like the diet and stuff and some genetics.

Toggle: Yeah, actually, it really does depend. There are some guys I really hate the smell of.

there was someone I smelled one time and like, I sniffed them and then like a big red X showed up in my mind. I can’t like otherwise describe, it was like that. It was like red

X. No,

Mike the Dog: No,

Kyon: Well, I hope

it wasn’t

Toggle: work. No, it wasn’t you.

You smell very nice.

Kyon: Oh, thank you.

Mike the Dog: I had this coworker once who smelt like, I don’t know, like spices or something and it was just like cinnamon or, I don’t know, not quite. It was this musky sort of spiced scent.

Toggle: I slept with a zoo from Israel at a con once, and he smelled completely different from any of the American zoos, uh, American furries there.

Mike the Dog: It does depend on the diet.

Toggle: super spicy, it was very nice.

Apparently Indian people,

I’ve, I’ve, I’ve heard a, someone describe what Indian people smell like.

Her husband in particular smells very, like the spices that they eat.

so yeah, diet makes a difference, culture makes a difference, um, I think also like your, like your, your physiology, your hair and all of that kind of stuff makes a

Mike the Dog: Yeah. okay. Bringing this back to dogs, depending on the diet, they might have like skin allergy problems and stuff like that. And you get that, like that stinky, sweet kind of stinky dog smell.

Toggle: hmm.

Mike the Dog: And that’s like a, that’s a skin problem,

Toggle: Okay. I know there was this one dog, , that was a husky that kind of spelled skunky all the time, and I was like, I don’t like the way You smell

You don’t smell right.


Mike the Dog: Maybe they just

Toggle: like you ran into a

Mike the Dog: few months, every few months they just go and find someone.

Toggle: Yeah, but always, always. So it was their natural smell, but I didn’t like it. So maybe it’s also an individual thing. Like, there’s some animals you’re keyed into and some that you’re not.

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Kyon: We can’t forget the corn chip smell of doggie paws.

Toggle: I, yeah, I hear that a lot. Corn chips.

Mike the Dog: Yeah. Oh, do you got to like smell the ears, smell the paws, smell the flank, smell like all the different parts because they’ll all have different scents.

Kyon: Because, because dog, dog paws are like the only place where they like really have sweat glands and they walk around and then the other dogs are kind of with their noses that are so good at smelling can smell where they’ve been.

And who was there?

Toggle: I don’t think I like the way doggie ears smell.

Kyon: Mm.

Toggle: check. I’ll come back with you on that.

suffice it to say, there is a love for animal scents here. Lovecat, you didn’t really talk about your, dog scent. What do you think?

Lovecat: Oh, I dig it. I’m more partial to cats, honestly. I think cats have a really nice mild smell to them. really miss having cats around, yeah. if you’ve never had a cat just cuddle on your lap and just, you know, give their head a sniff. They smell good.

Toggle: I don’t know. I think I can’t, like, decouple cats from litter boxes.

Lovecat: No, they don’t smell like litter.

Toggle: Yeah, I don’t like that.

. Get a cat

Toggle: Uhhh. Step one, acquire cat.

Step two,



Mike the Dog: Step three, question, question, question.

Lovecat: It’s like, it’s like a,


Toggle: For profit. Haha.

Lovecat: game. You gotta, you gotta Uh, type it in, sniff cat.

Mike the Dog: There is an entire cat here. Which part do you sniff? sniff?

Kyon: Heh huh huh huh huh huh

Toggle: Oh my god.

Mike the Dog: The cat is relieved at your choice.

Toggle: To answer your question, Curious Nanzu Corgi, The answer is definitively Yes. At least some of us really love the smell of animals. So there you go.

Mike the Dog: Oh, but it was also like, how often do you like bathe them and stuff like that? And like, I

Toggle: often enough. Dog could probably be bathed more often than he is, but I also am not really offended by the smell. So

Mike the Dog: Yeah.

Kyon: bed with the dog and thinking, He probably needs a bath, but I like it anyway. heh heh heh heh.


Toggle: definitely had that thought before. You need a bath, but I enjoy it.

Mike the Dog: If you’re in the nature a lot, I think a lot of the times you’ll end up around water sources enough that they, they go swimming. Uh, they

tend to get, you know, cleaned enough, right, over time. Oh, well, there’s that too, I mean, hopefully not swamps, right?

But they tend to get clean

Toggle: depends on the water source and what’s in that water, whether or not that’s true.

Mike the Dog: Sometimes you gotta hose them down after that, yeah, yeah.

Kyon: Thank you, curious non zoo corgi. May you waggle your corgi butt in happiness every day.

Mike the Dog: On

Toggle: that.

Mike the Dog: of heaven.

Toggle: The mountains of heaven where you get your hay.

Mike the Dog: Where

Toggle: Do you

get hay from mountains?

Mike the Dog: Probably not, but like, in heaven, anything’s possible, right?

Toggle: right?

in heaven anything’s possible. But I think hey comes specifically from like, fields.

Kyon: Maybe

Mike the Dog: Yeah, the fields of heaven.

Toggle: Fields in heaven. Pew pew


Kyon: fields.

Toggle: Yeah,

on the mountains of heaven.

everything is


Ha ha ha ha ha ha. You got your good thing, and I got mine.

Mike the Dog: yeah.

Toggle: All mine. I fucks with it. All right, Kion, you had a question that you wanted to ask.

Kyon: Oh, the icebreaker y thing. Yes. If you could travel anywhere in the world to see a specific animal in its natural habitat, where would you go and what animal would you want to see?

Toggle: I hear a very excited panting. What’s that?

Mike the Dog: Dogs.

Lovecat: hmm.

Toggle: In their natural habitat?

Mike the Dog: Imagine. No, actually, okay, you know what? There’s a book that some people wrote that is all about, like, dogs without humans, and like, what would happen if dogs became kind of wild, and like, how they would live. Anyways, though, no, but like, yeah. It’s a good thought experiment. I would probably choose something else in the end.

Toggle: I’m gonna tell you right now. I would choose kangaroos. 100%.

Let’s go to near the outback, but not quite into the outback, where the kangaroos are stealing from your garden.

Let’s hang out. Let’s do it.

Mike the Dog: yeah, actually, you know what that brings to mind? There was an article I read, uh, where some guy was like feeding hyenas meat. Like he would just come out and all the hyenas would be like, Oh, it’s this guy. And they’d like circle around him and eat all the meat. And so this photographer or someone was all like, Oh, this looks amazing.

And so we kind of like, it was talking to the guy and like how he was doing it and kind of started hanging out with the hyenas himself and slowly kind of became trusted by the pack. And he would kind of go out on journeys with them. At some points the hyenas were like, Oh, okay, we’ve got this man with us.

I think he can help us because he can scare everyone else away. And so like they used him strategically a little


Toggle: awesome.

Mike the Dog: And at one point he was laying with one of them and then he kind of like reached out and just touched, touched the other one’s paw and suddenly like, Whoa, jumped up. The other one jumped up.

I was like, what, what the fuck are you doing? Kind of thing.

Toggle: Yo, bro, that’s not the agreement we had.

Mike the Dog: Yeah. And so he kind of like misread the situation.

Toggle: We’re not that close, bro.

Mike the Dog: Yeah, you’re not close enough to hold hands.

Kyon: Flirting with, hyenas, I see.

Mike the Dog: yeah.

Toggle: It’s probably not a natural interaction for a


Mike the Dog: So like, you could totally do it, right now, today. You can go out, you could hang around with some hyenas.

Toggle: baller. I’m sticking with kangaroos. What about you, Lovecat?

Lovecat: , apparently I’m in an ocean folks mood tonight because, um, my mind keeps going

to octopi and dolphins and, yeah, and just basically undersea creatures. I just think they’re, they’re super fascinating. I would love to be able to just watch, you know, like in documentary fashion, them go about their lives. I think that’d be really, really cool.

Toggle: Yeah, absolutely. Which ones are you more interested? Dolphins or octopi?

Lovecat: Octopi. I don’t know why, they just, ever since I learned about their camouflage and their, abilities to, you know, get out of jars and, you know, squeeze through tiny openings, I just, I’ve found them so


Toggle: They are super fascinating. I do love that that’s been like the theme for every animal based thing is an octopus.

Lovecat: It’s just an Octopi night, I guess.

Toggle: All right, Kyan, that brings it back to you. What do you think?

Kyon: Oh, I’m torn between two. Uh, I think it might be very interesting to see a wild yak,

Toggle: Like in Tibet?

Kyon: like in Jammu and Kashmir.

Toggle: Wow. Why a yak?

Lovecat: They don’t talk back.

Kyon: I am completely unfamiliar with the yak. wild yaks live on the opposite side of the world.

I know nothing about them, really. So, new exposure, right? I

Toggle: Get enough reason.

What was your other one that you were torn

Kyon: the other one was, uh, a snow leopard because the mountains of China and the rareness of snow leopards.

Toggle: Oh. I feel like it would be really scary to, like, have to trek through the mountains of China, though.

Kyon: I mean, seeing the snow leopard might be the last thing I ever do. Real close up, you know?

Toggle: Yeah. This is how I die. I am okay with this. I accepted this when I began this journey.

Kyon: Yeah.

Toggle: Yeah.

The are hot, first of all. I’m just gonna start right there. I also think they’re interesting, and funny. and little curious critters, and I think they also tend to not be terribly afraid of humans if they’re around humans a lot, so I feel like observing them would be really easy. relative to, say, octopi or snow leopards,

Mike the Dog: Yeah.


Toggle: you know?

Mike the Dog: They got really sexy arms too.

Toggle: Oh yeah, big beefy arms,

they’re just fucking jacked

Lovecat: Yuked,

Mike the Dog: It’s rare. It’s rare. to get like, you know, animals that have wide range arms like that.

Toggle: Right

Mike the Dog: Usually they’re all like tails.

Kyon: Well, you know, they don’t exactly run on their hands hardly at all, so.

Toggle: I just got a text from an Australian friend. Maybe I’ll ask him about hanging out with kangaroos

Mike the Dog: I’m

sure he will tell you it’s unadvisable.

Toggle: I’m sure he will.

Mike the Dog: You’d be like, it’s Australia. gonna kill you.

Toggle: I feel like the kangaroos are my least of my worries of the Outback, right? Like, I’m really

Mike the Dog: Kangaroo just like reaches into his pouch, handfuls of spiders, just throws all the spiders at you. Aaaaah!

Toggle: would be the fucking worst.

Mike the Dog: Pockets of

Toggle: This isn’t the pocket spiders. No. How awful.

there is one last thing that I wanted to say, and I know I have talked a lot this episode, but, kind of a little bit of an announcement. So, the long and the short of it is that my husband has requested in no uncertain terms, that it is time for me to not spend this much time on the podcast.

he has very personal and very good reasons for this. Um, it’s really no one’s business, I guess, but you know, I spend a lot of time on this podcast to the exclusion of everything else, including my husband. so at this point, I don’t really have a choice. I do need to go ahead and step away a little bit, but as a group and as a team, we have talked about it a lot and we have come up with a solution that does not deprive you, the listener of your episodes of Zooier Than Thou.

I will be working on episodes every other month. Going forward and the episodes in between will be a lot simpler. So there’s not gonna be any skits You know, there might be some poetry or something that’s easy to put together. But sort of stripped down, straight up discussion. you know, there might be some scripted content, there’s gonna be emails and things like that, but those will all be run by everyone else on the crew except for me.

So someone else

will organize them, put them together, record them, edit them, and my job will basically be just to upload them and promote them, which will of course give you back a lot of time. And then I’ll be working on every other episode. Which will be more full featured episodes like you’re used to, skits and, you know, stuff like that.

and so in that way we can continue to do the podcast. It’ll be a slightly different feel, but not a huge difference. and then I can abide my husband’s wishes here. So. That’s all I wanted to say. I wanted to let you know what was going on going forward. We’ve already planned out most of the season, so it should be a really good one and a really interesting one.

We’ve got some cool topics coming up, and we’re excited to share them with you. So thank you guys for listening and thanks for all your support. and I hope you’ll continue to listen and enjoy the podcast. And that’s it. That’s all I wanted to say. Take us out, Mike.


Mike: Thanks, friends, for listening to Zooier Than Thou.

Lovecat: Our next episode is on May 23rd. It’s the first episode establishing the new format for this season, and we’ll be talking about DISCOURSE.

Kyon: It’s bound to be dramatic, so don’t miss it!

Toggle: You can subscribe to the podcast via our zooey RSS feed: just point your favorite podcast client at You can also check out our extensive bonus content at! If you want to show your support financially, head on over to Find us on Bluesky at… you guessed it,

Mike: Our podcast’s website hasn’t changed, and you can find a form there that enables anonymous submissions to the podcast! You can also simply email us at [email protected].

Kyon: Share this podcast with someone who likes listening to us answer emails!

Lovecat: I’m Lovecat, and I’m the purplish-pink, long-eared, cat princess coyly pawing at you in our new logo. Meow!

Mike: This is Mike the Dog, signing off with a big AWOO.

Kyon: I’m Kyon, and I hope you like me hugging you as much as I do.

Toggle: And I’m Toggle, the one with the voice that goes Squeak, and you’ve almost finished listening to Zooier Than Thou! Stay Defiant, fellow zoos! We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon!