Concept: Toggle

Execution: Toggle

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Opportunity Walks,” “Lobby Time,” “Acid Trumpet,” “Whiskey on the Mississippi,” “Pixiland,” “Beachfront Celebration,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Transcript to follow


The Exposure Solution

Where we’ve been, where we’re going

Bloopers, outtakes, and commentary


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Concept: Lovecat

Execution: Toggle

Special Guests: Michael Kiok and Komet of ZETA Verein

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!

Danish Animal Ethics Council:


“Reawakening,” “Lobby Time,” “Acid Trumpet,” “Bossa Antigua,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Hawaiian Dreams”
royalty free Music by Giorgio Di Campo for FreeSound Music…
original video:

“Sax Sexual,” by Smooth Jazz Sax Instrumentals, from the album “After Dark Jazz”

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,” “Afternoon Talk Show Tv Theme Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Transcript to follow



Secret Zoo 1

Interview with Michael Kiok and Komet – ZETA Verein

Secret Zoo 2

Zooey in Kahului

Personal Ad – Randy the Ram


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Concept and Execution: Toggle and ZeMen

Special Guests: Appa Loosa, and a bunch of ZooTT Contributors

Special thanks to Fausty for putting us on the path toward a better future. We love you, man.


“Gymnopedie No. 1,” “Acid Trumpet,” “Airship Serenity,” “Apero Hour,” “Clear Waters,” “Night on the Docks,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Old Time Radio American Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Sound effects provided by

Transcript to follow

Cold Open – Fausty Dedication


Remembering Fausty

Interview with Appa Loosa

Appa Loosa’s dedication


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Concept: Lovecat

Execution: Lovecat, Toggle

Special Guests: Lovecat, Kyon, Doodle Donkey, and Steeeve

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!

“Understanding Bestiality and Zoophilia” by Hani Miletski


“Midnight Tale,” “Sinfonia Number 5,” “Lobby Time,” “Acid Trumpet,” “Bossa Antigua,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,” “Afternoon Talk Show Tv Theme Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Transcript to follow



Secret Zoo – The Last Unicorn

Interview with Steeeve – Tales of Zoo History

Zoo Poetry Theater

Ask Zooey


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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guests: Steeeve, Doodle, Kyon, Zemen, and Les!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


“Gymnopedie No. 1,” “Acid Trumpet,” “Upbeat Forever,” “Hyperfun,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Old Time Radio American Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Sound effects provided by

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Transcript to follow


Reflections on the past and present

Interview with Doodle’s Mom

Reflections on the future


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Concept: Lovecat

Execution: Toggle

Special Guests: Lovecat, and his father ‘Sparky.’

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


“Nouvelle Noel,” “Apero Hour,” “Lobby Time,” “Gymnopedie No. 1,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

“Oh Little Town of Bethlehem (Instrumental),” by E’s Jammy Jams, from the YouTube Audio Library

“Happy Holidays,” by Borrtex, from the album “Christmas Time”

“Emmanuel,” by Darren Hodder, from the album “Our Friendly Beasts”

Sound effects gathered from For a complete list of all sound effects downloaded/used for ZooTT, visit

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Check out Carreen Maloney’s book at:

Transcript to follow



Legal Beagles Introduction


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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guests: Bob, Kitty, and Justin

We don’t know where we’d be without our non-zoo allies! Thanks so much for being incredible people!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


“Gymnopedie No. 1,” “Acid Trumpet,” “Opportunity Walks,” “Airport Lounge, “Lobby Time,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Old Time Radio American Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Sound effects provided by

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Transcript to follow


Interview with Bob

Interview with Kitty

Interview with Justin


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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


“Shades of Spring,” “Modern Jazz Samba,” “Lobby Time,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Check out Carreen Maloney’s book at:

Transcript to follow



Legal Beagles Introduction


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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guest: Doodle

HUGE Shout out to our listeners who submitted skits for this Howloween episode!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Earnest,” “Heartbreaking,” “Right Behind You,” “Floating Cities,” “Hidden Agenda,” “Awkward Meeting,” “Fearless First,” “Sovreign Quarter,” “Shades of Spring,” “Sad Trio,” “The House of Leaves,” “Pop Goes the Weasel,” “Supernatural,” “Oppressive Gloom,” “Lobby Time,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Old Time Radio American Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Sound effects provided by

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Transcript to follow

Part 1

A Story About A Horse

Part 2

The Headless Headless Horseman’s Horse

Secret Zoo – Valentino and Kabar

Part 3

Ask Zooey – Howloween Special!


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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guests: Canis Gnosis and Anziris

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Airport Lounge,” “Clear Waters,” “Lobby Time,” “Whiskey on the Mississippi,” “Bossa Antigua,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,” “Afternoon Talk Show Tv Theme Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”


“Sax Sexual,” by Smooth Jazz Sax Instrumentals, from the album “After Dark Jazz”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Transcript to follow



Betty’s Bestiality Brothel

Secret Zoo

Healthy, Happy, Zooey

Zoo Poetry Theater

Ask Zooey

Eulogy – Zeke


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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guests: Lucid, Volf, Kyon, Steeeeeeve, and Zemen Depo

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Airport Lounge,” “Inspired,” “Lobby Time,” “Bossa Antigua,” “Feelin’ Good,” “Opportunity Walks,” “Acid Trumpet,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Old Time Radio American Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Transcript to follow


Interview with Lucid and Volf

Follow-up with Volf

Reflections with Kyon

Reflections with Steeeeve

Reflections with Zemen Depo

Cancer News!!


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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guest Host: Vee

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Lobby Time,” “Frozen Star,” “Acid Trumpet,” “Symphonia No. 5 by Bach,” “Brandenburg Concerto No. 4,” “Blue Ska,” “Monkeys Spinning Monkeys,” “Investigations,” “Gymnopedie No. 1,” “Night on the Docks,” “Long Stroll,” “Bossa Antigua,” “Airport Lounge,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,” “Variety Show Segment Intro Tv Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Radio Show Finale Fanfare,” “Old Time Radio American Music,”  
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


(transcript not fully complete)


(The Zooier Than Thou podcast contains mature content and language, and may not be appropriate for younger audiences. Thanks for understanding.)

Fausty: Greetings, fellow zoos, and welcome to a very voluptuous episode of Zooier Than Thou. I’m Fausty, an old dog still learning new tricks.

Toggle: I’m Toggle, and I haven’t been called any interesting epithets in the past two weeks.

Vee: And I’m Vee, the Lesbian daughter of the mega-corporate owner of this podcast, and the penultimate source of pussy for this episode.

Fausty: And we’ll be your chauffeurs this evening!

Toggle: First off, thanks a ton for joining us tonight, Vee! It’s been getting a bit testosterone-y in here, lately. Big, macho bravado from SOMEONE here startin’ to stink up the place.

Fausty: I will absolutely take the blame for any and all testosterone-fueled displays of bravado, as, you know, the only one of us with balls.

Vee: Now, now, boys, you can measure your dicks — and your balls — later on.

Toggle: Fair enough. We’re just really stoked you can bring some much-needed feminine energy to our little sausage fest of a podcast.

Vee: Ah, yes. This recording booth is starting to smell a bit too much like prohibition beer and shitty dad jokes.

Toggle: The dad jokes are on me, sorry.

Vee: I would also like to take a moment to give a shout out to the ladies over at ZooVille, who are stalwart in holding down the fort against the influx of douchebags that have been kind of flooding the forums as of late. I’ve been away from the place more recently myself, but it’s nice to see that they are able to stand firm in the face of loudmouths who want to push us out of the community.

Fausty: Have you been dealing with a lot of that lately?

Vee: Actually, yes.

Toggle: I have to say that I’ve seen some rather toxic discourse on the site lately. I popped in to talk with some people about this apparently timely episode, and found myself dealing with incels, which I didn’t expect.

Fausty: Yeesh.

Toggle: We’ll definitely be tackling this subject a bit more in a few minutes. But first—

Vee: E-mails!

Toggle: Exactly!

Fausty: Alright, let’s dig into the mailbag and see what we’ve got.

Toggle: First up, Dog Park Princess writes: “So I have been listening to all of your podcasts while I am exercising and it takes my mind off the work and makes fitness fun – the only thing I wish is that they were weekly instead of bi-weekly! But no matter, I can tell that a lot of work goes into each one and they turn out absolutely wonderful.”


Toggle: You guys are trying to kill me. Twice a month is already too much! But seriously, we love hearing that folks enjoy the podcast so much! Thanks a ton! Vee, can you read the next part?”

Vee: Certainly. Dog Park Princess continues: “I enjoyed listening to the limericks and was inspired to write my own:

“My doggy can screw – That is certainly true,

And I have to admit that he’s better than you…

Since the size of his dick

is as long and as thick

As a human man if he had two!”

Toggle: (laughs)

Vee: Truly inspired.

Fausty: You can’t argue with facts.

Toggle: We should bring back more limericks.

Vee: So many fucking limericks.

Fausty: We could do a whole episode of just reading limericks, and I think everyone would be just as happy.

Vee: I mean, they’re about horse ass and dog weenie. Who wouldn’t?

Toggle: Right? Thanks a ton, Princess! That was awesome!

Vee: Up next, we have one from Flower. Flower writes: “Hey there! I’m super excited to contribute to the podcast!

I am a 19-year-old sophomore university student. I just recently joined ZooVille after getting more interested in getting to know others who share similar interests in zoophilia and bestiality. I have received so many warm welcomes and pieces of advice on this board. Having gotten these feelings at a young age, I’ve always felt deep shame about it and fear that someone would find out. I never dated any guys or girls (due to shyness and anxiety), but my pet became my lover – the type of deep romantic bond that seems to be unreal.”

Toggle: That sounds kind of beautiful.


Vee: I think that it’s beautiful that you were able to find companionship. But you shouldn’t let any fears or anxieties you’re having stop you from finding even more resources for love. Nothing is more wonderful than getting to grow up and experience love like that. I’m almost jealous.

Flower continues: “I’ve been able to talk to people of all different ages, races, nationalities, sexualities, and even more areas of diversity. Talking with some of the older members has really taught me to not take my access to internet resources for granted. Not only do I have a massive amount of porn at my disposal – I also have communities and resources to help guide me through my journey.”

Toggle: Yeah, it’s really cool that young zoos get to grow up and actually learn from… I guess you would say elders?

Fausty: Grey muzzles.

Toggle: Grey muzzles in the community.

Vee: It is absolutely wonderful to have terabytes of porn at your fingertips! That’s always a wonderful perk to having a community. But also, it’s great that the circle of learning and experiences are… well, they’re becoming a circle now. People who went through zoo life 30 or 40 years ago can pass on their knowledge so that younger zoos can learn from them without having to make the same mistakes or suffer the tides of this world with no guidance.


Vee: Flower concludes, ”I, like many others, hope for a day where zoophiles and those who practice bestiality are accepted by society. Even as a woman who is mounted by my dog whom I love and care for (i.e. I’m the passive partner in the sexual act), I am called a monster animal abuser by those who are disgusted by my love and sexuality. Men have it even worse; even though most who take the “top” role in their relationships are so gentle and loving towards their partners, they are even more harshly criticized than women.”

Toggle: I don’t know that men are more harshly criticized, as much as women are completely erased from the idea of what it means to be a zoo in the eyes of bigotry.

Fausty: (something something passive roles.)

Vee: (Canadian laws, penetration vs. oral)

Toggle: (yadda yadda how being a female zoo is perceived from an outside perspective)

Fausty: Alright, up next is an e-mail from… Beth?

Toggle: Beth. Yes, Beth.

Fausty: Beth.

Vee: Beth?

Toggle: Beth. Beth writes: “While zoophilia is something I’ve been into for quite some time, I only recently started to really participate in the community and really put myself out there. I started out on beast forum. I joined a bit after high school and really just lurked on the forum for a while. I eventually started posting and started receiving messages. Most of them were very nice but some were…..very off-putting to say the least. Being the still shy girl I was at the time I took a break from the site. I spent a few years off and on that site. I met a lot of cool people and even met some in person. Right before beast forum died I heard about art of zoo. I’ve been way more active than ever in the community on there. I became even more active after finally being mounted.”

Vee: Congratulations!

Toggle: Is being mounted like having a Bat Mitzvah?

Vee: It’s more like a baby shower for your canine hymen.

Toggle: The first time is always a memorable experience.


Toggle: Beth continues: “My experiences at first were a mixed bag of people actually trying to talk and creeps trying to get free pics or into my pants if they were in the area. That is the part that was a bit off putting despite more people just wanting to chat. Eventually on the tail end of beast forum I met a very local owner and after months of chatting we finally met in person. By that point we had both shifted to art of zoo. This is where it gets a bit more interesting since now I’m a woman with experience and pics/ videos from it.

Being a female in this community, one of the biggest issues is the amount of guys who feel entitled to your time, pics and attention. Before my experience I was talking to several people, mostly guys since there tends to be a larger percentage of guys on sites like these. After my experience there were guys consistently asking for pics. I hadn’t really planned on sharing them and said no. Later on, the site wanted to do an interview. I decided to do it and share a couple pics for it. There were a couple guys upset that I was sharing it for the interview but not sharing all of my pics with them and felt a way about it. I had to squash that fast. I was worried I would get more like that after it was posted but oddly enough it was just curious dudes who were polite and a couple of ladies who had genuine questions.”

Vee: Yeah, it is unfortunately not uncommon if you put out any kind of media, you open yourself up to anything from people that just get a little too interested for your comfort zone, to totally greedy creeps. It’s nice to put up content for the community and receive feedback and trade experiences, but it also opens you up to people feeling entitled to your very existence. And the infuriating thing is that no one cares. And the most common response is like, “Just block them.” But that doesn’t stop them. You pull the head off the weed, and there’s gonna be like sixteen more in its place.

Toggle: I will say, as a gay guy, I have been asked for videos, but I’ve never had anyone get really creepy about it. It’s usually like, “Hey, you’re a zoo. Do you have any pictures? It’s cool if not, but…” You know. Kind of understanding that this might not be something you want to share. BUT, thinking about it, Grindr is a place that I think I can relate to some of that, because… I dunno. People think you owe them pictures. Why do guys think other people owe them stuff?

(Conversation about Grindr and ZooVille solicitations)

Fausty: What’s next?
Vee: Here’s one from Dragoness! She writes, “I just find this wholescale women hate thing to be a very hard pill to swallow (pardon the pun!) And I’m sure there’s equal hatred on the other side of the coin.”

Toggle: I can’t decide if she’s saying she doesn’t believe that women get a lot of hate, or if she doesn’t understand WHY women get a lot of hate.

Fausty: What do you think, Vee?

Vee: As another woman who has been in the zoo community since her teen years i can say that to maybe some it is a hard pill to swallow but its not unthinkable. Hatred toward minorities and women are evident in every community. Even in Lgbtq communities bisexual women (and males and nonbinary people as well) face erasure, and being a bisexual and a woman you are seen as impure or gross to some lesbians, and just a play thing to straight couples. Or like in gaming communities, woman are bashed, trolled, bullied and generally not allowed to be themselves. So where as for some the pill may be hard to swallow i think its about time we take it and start fixing shit!

Toggle: I think Dragoness is trying to allow that there are women who hate guys just as much, and I think yes. Certainly, that’s true. But I think that it’s hard to suggest, given my experience, that the effects of misandry are as significant in our community as the effects of misogyny.


Vee: Dragoness continues: “Either way, it’s this separatist behavior that enables more hatred in the world, in the zoo lifestyle and in all areas of life. It is our differences that make us important and special, but it shouldn’t be a reason to hate, vilify, exclude or help to tear us apart more.”

Toggle: Elk yeah.

Fausty: Couldn’t agree with that sentiment more. I think it’s fair to say that we’ve founded our podcast based on that very principle.

Vee:”Having become more comfortable with bestiality, I’ve also joined another page called zoosbook and a kik group. As with all these online platforms, people hide behind their screens. You don’t know them, or even who they really are. As it happens, I’ve not been abused on ZooVille or these other platforms. Only by a guy in the kik group I was in. He started by asking me (the usual 🙄) questions about whether I’d ever taken a 9 inch cock and how I wouldn’t be able to take it. When I told him that I didn’t like the way he spoke to me, he verbally abused me stating that I was a disease on society, mentally deranged and should be locked up. He then said he’d found me on Facebook, which to me, was scarier than anything else.

I’ve since done some changes and more lockdowns, but I suppose you can’t close the gate once the horse has bolted!”

Toggle: Christ.

Vee: It is good to hear that you’ve not had to deal with any bs on zooville thus far. There will always be people in the world looking to be assholes for no reason or for following their own dogmatic state of mind. But it is saddening to hear your toxic experiences in the community in other groups. It seems to be almost a trend in communities when a man is getting too comfortable with their selfish indulgent desires that if they are denied — most particularly by women — Their first response is to alienate, insult and try to disconnect you from whatever community it is you are part of. Threats of being outed or shamed on vulnerable networks like facebook or twitter namely are terrifying. So always try to disconnect your identity with your zoo identity. Become that spicy dog cock loving ethereal goddess you’ve always dreamed of personifying! And when it comes to irl stuff with people you trust, just be (insert x name here) the spicy dog cock loving goddess! But not made of pixels! 😀


Vee: The Dragoness concludes: “Misogyny and sexism I’ve dealt with all my life. This hatred for bestiality is new! How do you deal with it? I get it that some ppl are against it and think its wrong. But hey, up until recently homosexuality was listed in the DSM as a psychological disorder!”

Toggle: Honestly? Mix a bit of self-confidence with a strong support network and community, sprinkle in the knowledge that all these bigots are full of shit, and you’ve got a nice cocktail for dealing with their bullshit.


Vee: Personally I return to my network of people that I trust and have, but that is something that I have built over time and can rely on. It may not be the same for you, if you are alone with the secret of being a zoo start networking! Nothing helps unwind after dealing with some asshats bigotry like being able to recede into the loving arms of someone who accepts you.

Toggle: Our final e-mail comes from Wendy Darling.

Fausty: Where do you get these names from?

Toggle: Look, I just read what’s on the script. Wendy writes, “I appreciate that you’re wanting to talk about women zoos since it’s very much something overlooked. I do not consider myself zoo exactly since I’m also attracted to humans equally as I am animals, so I’m not sure if my input would actually count.”

Fausty: It does.

Toggle: “I think my main question would be if men think that being zoo exclusive is solely a male sexuality like some users here on ZooVille do, that if women can also be Zoosexual. And if male Zoos who were born knowing they only liked animals for relationships dislike the male ones who say they “went Zoo” because they had a bad relationship. Aka, “Women are all cheating nagging harpies. I went Zoo because dogs and horses don’t talk back and do what I want.” Or men who say they “went Zoo” just for sex because they say a bitch or mare is ten times better at sex than a woman, and didn’t do it for actual relationship purposes.”

Fausty: Is this a thing, that only men can be zoosexual?

Vee: I think there’s a growing presence of redpilled zoos on ZooVille who express these views.

Toggle: Yeah, gross. Zoosexuality isn’t just a male thing. Women can definitely be sexually attracted to animals. Also, not being zoo-exclusive doesn’t make you any less of a zoophile. I have a human husband, but I still get fucked by dogs, so I mean…


Toggle: Wendy continues: “Female zoo exclusives are more uncommon than males, and honestly I think it has a lot to do with society still pushing that women NEED to be in a relationship to have kids. A single woman is berated more than a single man. I also believe a lot of exclusivity is because of failure with human relationships, and men seem to have this more than women by far from what I’ve seen here and on other zoo/beast sites over the years. Obviously that’s not all, I’ve talked with many exclusive men who were both sweet and respectful.. however those were only ones who believe they were born exclusive from the start. Ones who tend to show or support the MGTOW lifestyle are more hostile. There’s nothing inherently wrong with giving up on relationships and focusing on yourself, but so many men do it out of spite and hate. It would be nice to delve into that in the Zoo world as to why men do it but it’s rare for women to.”

Fausty: OK, so what is Migtow?

Vee: Men Going Their Own Way. It’s a branch off of the men’s rights movement that encourages men to give up pursuing relationships with women in service of a greater purpose.

Fausty: Sounds pretty gay.

Toggle: You’re not expected to fuck other guys instead. Because that would be gay.

Fausty: What does this have to do with zoos?

Vee: There’s a growing presence of incels and “zoopilled” people on ZooVille which are spouting these ideas.

Toggle: It’s kind of insane, to be perfectly honest.



Fausty: Thanks to everyone who sent us in e-mails for this episode, and thanks too all the folks who contacted us through other media as well!

Toggle: So, today’s topic, broadly, is about women in our zoo community. I really wanted to discuss this topic because I noticed in my own zoo groups, there weren’t a lot of women present and visible, and many of the zoophile studies I’ve seen passed around completely ignore women entirely. To me, as a beta male soyboy cuck, it seems like there’s a little bit of erasure of female zoosexual identity both within our community and from without. On top of that, I can’t help but notice there’s an element of misogyny that’s present in the community, and the degree to which I’ve witnessed it has actually risen since I first started trying to put this episode together. But, obviously, I don’t want to dominate this conversation, which is why we’ve invited Vee to guest host, and Ashley Wolf as our interview guest. So, that’s the introduction. Vee, would you like to start us off?


(Zoo Bystanders)

(How zoosexual women are erased by mainstream perceptions of what a zoophile is)

(Incels, the zoo pill, zoo exclusivity)

(Creating a space that’s not alienating for women in our community)

(Women’s POSITIVE experiences in the zoo community)

(What it means to be a zoo for women)

Toggle: Don’t touch whatever device you’re streaming this show from. There’s a bunch more zooey goodness coming up, after this!

This Episode’s Sponsors

Announcer: This week’s podcast is sponsored by:

Knotella: Start your day right, and spread that creamy canine goodness all over your muffin!

And also by:

Farmer John’s Natural Deodorant and Body Wash: for when your human smells too, well, human. Now available in three new scents: “Fresh hay,” “Spring dirt bath,” and “Chewed up tennis ball.”

And finally:

By X chromosomes, and people who have two of them.


Mrs. Mixies’ Treats for Humans

Announcer: Is your human a tired, anxious ball of nerves? Are you sick of watching it struggle to understand even the simplest concepts like pack loyalty, or hunting strategy, or how to keep its “car” clean inside?

Cat 1: Christ. Yes.

Announcer: Give your human the simple, low-cost, good-tasting feedback it so desperately needs with Mrs. Mixies Treats for Two-Leggers! Perfect for a species so dim it nearly managed to wipe out life on our entire planet. Reward its not-dumb behaviours with something simple and, well… simple. And what hits that so-so-simple spot?

Dog 1: Mrs. Mixies?

Announcer: Yes, Mrs. Mixies! Reward your human for its shambolic attempts at logic with a sweet treat from Mrs. Mixies kitchen. Did your human play fetch with you today without the need for constant corrections? Treat it to some Mixies! Did your human find the perfect spot where you needed a good scritch? Treat it to some Mixies! Humans are just the most precious little skinbags, aren’t they? Of COURSE they are! So treat them and show them, in a way even their crippled human brains understand, that you don’t hate them.

Dog 2: Any time my human remembers what it was supposed to be doing around the den or with the pups or whatnot, I give it a Mixies. Treats always brightens its mood, and now it seems to feel less confused all the time – what a blessing!

Horse 1: Ever since I started using Mixies, it’s been easier to train my human to keep on top of those awful thistles that keep popping up in our pasture. Sure, it struggles with a complex task like this, but with Mixies at least I have a way to tell it that it isn’t totally incompetent… with a language even it can understand. Sorta dumb, we all know those humans are, but also soooo cute!

Announcer: Humans are crazy for Mrs. Mixies special, addictive blend of caffeine and sugar, packed in a vaguely healthy (or anyhow not aggressively unhealthy) bite with essential human vitamins and minerals, and coated in delicious flavors your human will go crazy for. Now available in Spicy Sriracha, Crunchy Peanut Butter, Vansterdam Avocado Toast, and – a favourite of those precious “senior” humans, especially – Palatable Liver Flavor!

Cat 1: Wow, my human worships me even more than before! It understands that treats mean it didn’t do an oopsie or dig up my catnip or any other stupid human thing – so it doesn’t have its spirit crushed by how dumb it really is. And that’s as best we can hope, isn’t it? I mean, they’re cute – but nobody said they were any smarter than even a kitten who still has yet to open her eyes. And we love them just as they are – no matter what anyone else might say.

Dog 1: How did I live without Mrs. Mixies? My human used to be so unruly, but now it – or should we call it “he” after we got it fixed so it doesn’t try to hump my shoulder? – gets excited when I bring it my leash. It really understands, I think… or maybe it just likes Mixies so much that it’s happy all the time. Either way, I’m happy with the results so far. It won’t ever be a real pack member, obviously… but at least it can feel like it’s doing something right.

Announcer: You’ve never seen a two-legger do zoomies like this before! But wait – there’s more! Now, available only in certain states, Mrs. Mixie’s comes with a therapeutic dose of THC, to help your anxious humans relax. Who needs expensive SSRIs or sedatives purchased in some dark alley when it comes to human separation anxiety syndrome? Mixies has got your human covered, and it’ll settle in no time once that THC hits full-force.

Cat 2: (unconcerned) My humans go bonkers for it when they’ve had their Mixies. Sometimes that means they’re too wacked to handle basic tasks like laser-pointer pointing, but whatever – it’s super funny to watch. Humans are dumb, but dumb in a cute way. Sometimes.

Dog 2: I can tell my human is happier now. It is always excited to play with me, and love on me, and its kisses are so much less nasty than before! Sure, it’s not a real person – but at least it doesn’t smell quite so much like everything wrong with the world. That’s a start. Thanks, Mrs. Mixies!

Announcer: Mrs. Mixies Treats for Two-Leggers, now available everywhere human treats are sold! Remember: to others, it’s only a human… but to you, it’s almost like it’s sort of a kind of halfway-part-of-the-family adjunct partial person! That’s worth a treat… and they’re soooo cute, aren’t they?


Secret Zoo

Announcer: Here at Zooier Than Thou, we’ve made it something of a tradition to explore, each full moon episode, a bit of zooish history in the form of a Secret Zoo. That is, someone we all know, a part of our shared culture, who it turns out is actually a part of the grand tradition of zooish human awesomeness. From Shadowfax (and his human, some old guy with a long beard) to the inestimable Rin Tin Tin and his human (whom he loved very much, and very deeply), each Secret Zoo is a great chance to learn more about the wonders of zooish history. But, this month, we’ve pulled out all the stops in service of a Secret Zoo that’s out of this world. Literally. We asked our legendarily great-maned Great Dane herself, Miss Zooey, to breach the walls of the Afterlife to answer a question on the minds of zoos everywhere. Sure, she was Great. But, was Catherine really… one of us? Without further ado, it’s… Zooey!

Zooey:: Fabulous I am, and fabulous I’m known as far and wide. Adulation and adoration are a natural part of being me. And yet, when this month’s challenge was put to me with such manners and such earnest hopefulness, I knew I’d have to dig deep. Really, really deep. And, just happens that in addition to fabulousness without bounds, I’m about as deep in deep as a Dane can get… which is damned deep indeed! Deep, as in “Dearest Zooey, we need to know – the zoo community needs to know: Catherine the Great, the legendary ruler of Mother Russia in the 18th Century… born a Prussian princess, ascending to empress of a grand country on the verge of dissolution, a woman hugely successful in the crippling confines of an all-male European ruling class, a woman who knew what she wanted and knew how to go about making it so, well… we all know the silly rumour of her stallion-involved death were nothing but petty imagination after her death, and yet we still want to know, need to know: was Catherine the Great a legitimate, in-the-bones, fully-fleshed zoo? One of us? Zooey, please, only you can get the answer, and to do so you must cross over to the Afterlife, and ask the Great Catherine Herself!” Well, that’s a tall order even for a tall glass of fantastic such as I… but there is no try – only do – when it comes to Zooey’s dedication. Off I went….

Announcer: That’s right, Zooey used her bubbling, fecund, orgasmic Great Dane magicks to inside-tie deep within the Cosmos itself. That’s right, she crossed over. To the Afterlife. Just like that, she was there…

Zooey:: Well hello there ladies and gents and oh my so many beautfic mares and prancing, handsome stallions! And dogs, and bitches, and dolphins, and critters great and small! The Afterlife, in all its glory. And I must say, not many lacking-legs, naked monkeys here in comparison to the four-legged smorgasboard of murrs set out before my lusty eyes. Sir? Sir! Would you have a moment, my large friend?

Draft Stallion: Good day, little lady… and may I I say, you’ve quite the gorgeous mane, that you most certainly do! And – deep nicker – no offense intended but, well… a fella can’t help but drop into such a pleasant surprise as this! And what – apart from the obvious service of service – can an gentleman such as myself offer a fine lady such as you?

Zooey:: Oh my oh my oh Dog Almighty herself! The Afterlife, with handsome hunks like you, is everything I’d dreamed and so much more… that sheath is no dream, if my eyes tell true, and what’s emerged from its bountiful confines is most certainly befitting of Heaven itself.

Draft Stallion: No offense intended, Ma’am, but this is no “Heaven.” That was just a silly human fairytale. They told themselves they’d have run of the great pastures in the sky – humans and nobody else – can you believe it? Silly, it was, and it’d be silly to think anything but. No, Ma’am, this is the Afterlife and whilst we did vote to let in some of our small, loud, selfish friends – it’s best to keep an open mind, innit? – mostly its us four-legged folks and our various friends, here.

Zooey:: Ah, well, call it what you will but with dream-worthy wonders like you here, to me it’s heavenly whatever the name. And these humans I see… most seem like they’re, well… for example there’s that most-pleased-seeming woman over there engaged in a most beautiful tie with what I can’t help but think is a Moose of a canine fellow, befitting Ghengis himself. And she’s not the only one: there’s Rinty himself, balls-deep in his beloved Lee and the both of them radiating what I’d say is heavenly delight. And those mares over there… oh, my oh my – with adoring “little stallions” like those on the oral job, it’s no wonder they’re happy has horses can be. Seems all the humans are…

Draft Stallion: Yes indeed, Ma’am. Most al the humans here, they’re invited alongside their nonhuman mates, that they are. There’s no rule that it’s zoos-only on the human side of things… but it’s a damned rare sight indeed to see an unaccompanied human make the grade. Mother herself, well… she’s not to keen on most humans, that’s the long and short of it. But the ones wise enough to find love with nonhuman partners? They’ve got a toe – and sometimes a bit more than a toe, if I might say – in the door where it counts most. And we’re glad to have them, that we are! It may be the Afterlife and whatnot, and I may be a draft stallion right out of the Dreamtime… but even here, I don’t have thumbs and those humans sure are good with an AV when it comes time to cum, as it were, as they say… whoo, yessir… those thumbs and what they can do? I say that humans have plenty to offer, even missing two legs as they are. Welcome here, any time – so long as they arrive with an AV hot and ready for some action!

Zooey:: My good man, I must say I’ve some skills with just such a tool as you describe, and thumbs well-trained, and we might just make some time to make some gel and all that comes therafter – I bet that’s an impressive load indeed! But, first, duty calls. May I aask of you one small question – my big, bodacious boy?

Draft Stallion; Well, ahem, that you most certainly may. Don’t mind my slapping, M’lady… all this talk of hot AVs and gel fractions has me, well, thinking with my biggest muscle, a we stallions like to say…

Zooey:: Amoungst stallions may be just the place to find what I’m looking for. Would you perhaps know if Catherine the Great, the legend herself, made the cut and made it here to the Afterlife? She’s said to have a way with the stallions, if I may be some blunt…

Draft Stallion: Cathy? The Great One herself? Well certainly she’s here – why wouldn’t she be? And a way with the studs? That’s not giving half the credit she deserves, for she’s a one who knows her way around a flare, that she is! I believe she’s just ’round the corner of the Breeding Barn of Bliss, if my ears tell true… she, and her latest equine paramour, who sounds like he’s having the time of his life. And no surprise, for either, not one bit.

Zooey:: My thanks, and you – big handsome – hold that though that’s got your chest all a spunky wonderland and I’ll be back in a jiffy to see if these Afterlife AVs can handle draft-stallion-plus endowments like that!

{sound of walking, a bit of panting, and Zooey mumbling about “haven’t see a man – you name the species, honey, and no need to leave the whale fellas aside – with that kind of firepower between the legs since… well since forever…oh, oh my oh my, what have we here!}

Catherine:: Oh, I see we’ve an audience, Bucephalus – wonder if she’s as good in bed as her gorgeous Great Dane looks would have us believe? Shall we invite her for a small session with the two of us, Bucky? What say you?

Bucephalus Catherine, my dear, your wish is my command. Alexander is off for the day – remedial anger management lessons for all eternity, the price he paid to accompany me here in spite of… well, all that badness of his – and I’m yours to command as you see fit.

Catherine:: Come over here, darling, and don’t be shy. Bucky here won’t hurt you… not unless you decide to try on his flare for yourself, and in that case it’s on you if those beautiful eyes of yours are hungrier than those flanks can accommodate. He’s no draftie, Bucky, but he’s a ways ahead of any Great Dane you’ll ever meet, in the endowment arena. Dont’ be shy, now! Give Bucky a nice squeeze and he’ll share some hair product better than anything you’ve ever tried, that I most certainly assure you to be true.

Zooey:: Can’t disagree one bit, Miss… Catherine. Can’t disagree: nothing like gel, fresh from the tap, to keep things smooth and slick and tight ’round the ears! First, if I may, a small question of historical import… though, from the looks of things, I’m pretty sure I know the way of it already, Miss Catherine. Still, for the record and for the ages…

Catherine:: Yes, young woman? What’s on your tongue – surely it’s not Bucky’s seed, not yet anyhow, and it must be something important indeed to delay such an important rendezvous. Ask it, and let’s be about our equine endeavours, two ladies and one most legendary man.

Zooey:: Well, it’s clear that the story of your death, and the stallion, and the “malfunctioning apparatus” and, well, it’s hardly worth even mentioning…

Catherine:: Oh that silly story? It doesn’t take a zooish history maven to know that, no, I didn’t die when some apparatus malfunctioned and a stallion fell on me mid-coitus. How silly! Only someone utterly ignorant of the ways of equine men would misunderstand so badly the mechanics of human-stallion carnal pleasures. An apparatus? Collapsing? The only thing that collapses in such situations is any sane woman’s inhibitions, once he enters her and fills her very soul in ways only us equine zoos will ever truly understand. So, no, there was no death by malfuction and unfortunately my transition to this zooish Afterlife of dreams was as mundane and quotidian as it gets: a stroke, that’s what did me in. Too much good food, too little sex – that was the fatal flaw! More sex, and I’d have kept in better fighting trim, that’s what Alex and Bucky tell me – and I think they’re as right as can be, that they are.

Zooey:: Yes of course, and my thanks for the gracious answer. Even the most cloistered canine zoo knows that there’s no apparatus needed when stallions and women love each other very, very much – malfuctions, indeed! Only malfuction there is the non-zoo malfunction of thinking that anyone past kindergarten would misunderstand such a simple sex act, so badly and so weirdly. Well, and not to pry, so please don’t feel I’m pressuring you for a reply, but if I may…

Catherine:: It doesn’t take a lifetime of rule to read what you’re about to ask, and you need not fear my wrath, little lady, for it’s all for the good: Yes, yes of course I’m “of the community,” as we said in my time. As zooish as you, yourself most certainly appear to be. Zooish as a barn full of lusty mares with only the stableboy to do yoeman’s service. Zooish as dear Alex and Bucky, those two randy gentleman with their endless appetites for each other’s surfeit of seed! Zooish as… well, you get the point, I’d think, and Bucky here’s getting impatient if his handsome stallionhood is any measure of things, so let’s not muddle about a moment longer than is necessary for community good taste: Yes, yes I was and yes I am: Princess, Empress… and Zooish throughout. T’was the stallions who captured my heart – and all the rest – though I can’t say I turned down a stud dog with that special sparkle in his eyes… nor, from time to time, a human male if he could hold his own in this sort of heavy company. Some could, yes indeed… no Ptomekin village could fake what those gentlemen provided me when the call went out. No, no… they earned their place in my bed – even if, of course, they could never measure up to the equine heroes of my dreams.

Zooey:: Well, my thanks for that – settles the question, just like that. And now, if I may… Bucky, what’s your pleasure: hands, tongue, lips… or all the above?

Bucephalus Nickers deeply….

Announcer: And, dear listeners, there you have it! Catherine was Great, that she was: a great example of zooish savoir-faire and zooish self-confidence. A woman as comfortable in her own sexuality as she was in the barn, coupled with her favourite new young stallion, the two of them turning noblesse oblige on its cross-species head! A Secret Zoo no more, Catherine takes her place amoungst the greats of our great zoo community. And, stay tuned, for more Zooier Than Thou…

Fausty: Last episode, we’d briefly mentioned an opportunity for Zooier Than Thou listeners to take a tragic situation and make it right. So here’s the details.

Toggle: You can find all this information and more at a domain we registered to use for this particular task:

Fausty: Wow, that’s an amazingly cute and creative domain name! Who came up with that, Toggle?

Toggle: I did.

Fausty: Yes, you most certainly did.

Toggle: A few months ago, we got wind of a really nasty situation. Friend of a friend heard about this dog who had been shot, for no reason, and left paralyzed. And the dog’s owner was struggling to afford surgery to get the dog back up and running.

Fausty: Yep. So we’ve tracked down the details, and we decided that we are going to – we, listeners to the podcast and we as the zoo community – we are going to raise the funds to get this surgery done. And Toggle’s awesome domain name points to the fundraising page, so that’s where we can go to put our funds to work on this one.

Toggle: Fausty said, last episode, that it’s within our power to make this tragedy into something good. And that’s exactly what we’re doing here: we’re raising the funds to get this surgery done, so that Jason’s dog can walk again.

Fausty: without further ado, here’s Jason himself to tell us a bit about this nighmarish situation.


Toggle: This really is a tragedy.

Fausty: It is. The miraculous part of this is that we are able to turn this tragedy into a happy ending. Jason is a solid guy – in the months I’ve been talking with him on and off, that’s been really clear to me. And even though this isn’t a specifically zooish thing, it’s the right thing for us to do. He’ll do the rest of the work, and all he needs is a little help with the cost of the surgery. That’s something we, together, can do – we can make this right.

Toggle: go to…

Fausty: Great domain name, Toggle!

Toggle: Why thanks, fausty! Yes go to and donate what you can, so we can make this right. I’m donating, Fausty’s donating…

Fausty: We’re doing this, yup. So donate what you can, and tell others you know so they can help out, as well. Once the funds are available, we’ll keep in touch with Jason and keep everyone update on how the surgery and her recovery are going.

Toggle: This is a nice, straightforward chance to make one thing right. Take a minute to do what you can, right now, and tell everyone you know that they can help out, too.

Fausty: Excellent. This is how we take bad things and make them good. And thanks, everyone, for helping to make this happen. It’s really wonderful to see.


Interview with Ashley Wolf

(transcript needed)


Ask Zooey

Zooey: Welcome back to yet another episode of Ask Zooey, the internet’s number-one cross-species intimacy advice program. I’m the host with the most & plenty to boast, Zooey!

Vee: And I’m Vee, filling in for Toggle who called in too gay to work.

Zooey: I didn’t know you could do that.

Vee: If anyone can be too gay to work, Toggle’s certainly the one.

Zooey: Well, at any rate, by now our lovely audience knows the drill: send us your most lascivious romantic tryst questions, and we’ll answer them right here on the air! We respond to texts, e-mails, DMs, and carrier pigeons.

Vee: There are several very reliable ways to reach us, so don’t be shy! Whether you’ve got a hand or a hoof or anything else afoot, we’ve got advice for you.

Zooey: Our first letter comes from Smitten in Smyrna. Smitten writes: “Dear Zooey: I’ve known I was a zoo from a young age. When I was in school, I never dated any other boys or girls. My German Shepherd was my best friend and my lover. But now that I’m in college, I’ve met someone that I really like, a two-legger, as you say. I don’t have any experience with dating humans, and I know that if we seriously look at a long-term relationship, at some point, I’ll have to be honest about my sexuality. How do I most delicately tip my toes into the water of bringing up the slightest hint of this aspect of myself?”

Vee: Wow, we’re right out of the gate and playing for keeps, tonight.

Zooey: It’s certainly a question many zoos that decide to enter into human relationships will face at some point or another. I think recognizing the downsides involved in keeping your zooish orientation secret from your human paramour is a sign that you’ve got a good sense of the rough spots this all might entail for you & your loves.

Vee: Indeed. A foundation of honesty and openness with your partner, whether they’re two-legger or four-, is the key to a successful and healthy relationship. But talking about these things in an honest and genuine way isn’t always as easy as it might seem, so you’ll have to be willing to go places that aren’t always comfortable or obvious, along the way. Each relationship is a little different, so we’ll try to give good advice for the general rule, but knowing your dynamic with your partner is an intrinsic part of doing this successfully.

Zooey: We reached out to one of our friends of the podcast who is out to her partner, and she suggests that you consider softballing the topic as a first step. Oh and soft balls… that calls up some gorgeous memories! Anyway, where were we? Yes, right: if you’re unsure, it’s always worth thinking about a spot of humor, as an icebreaker, in tickly conversations. From there, get a sense of the response and that can guide you forward with a bit more confidence, honey. In my experiences with coming out — and let’s be honest, there’s no way anyone could ever fit all this Danely gorgeousness in a closet to begin with — you can gauge a lot with a little bit of humor. Is their reaction to pretend to throw up in their mouth, or do they roll with it and joke back? Humor is a great first step, plus it’s plausibly deniable in a pinch. If you receive a reaction that doesn’t make you feel alienated, then you can carry forward with a deeper talk on the many and magical variations on the theme of human – and mammal – sexuality: gay to straight, zoo to normal, top to bottom… it’s all part of the beautiful, sexy, sticky stew that makes us the critters we are. So, great as all this is, it can still be scary to be this open with any aspect of your sexuality that’s not whitebread-boring-straight-down-the-pike routine, but Smitten, if you’re taking relationships to the next level, it’s a conversation you’ll both be glad you’ve had. Coming at it with some fun and a lot less of the heavy seriousness that might seem tempting is a great way to get things going with good energy right from the start. From there, it’s all about finding ways to be honest and feel safe with each other – follow your heart towards those goals, and you’ll get to good places whatever the specifics.

Vee: Pay attention to how you feel about the reaction to your humor, as well. Frankly, Smitten, if you suddenly feel like you can’t be yourself around your suitor, you may be better suited finding another lover. A relationship in which you have to hide a significant aspect of yourself is doomed to fail in a painful and spectacular way. Hiding away your sexuality breeds resentment, self-loathing, and crumbles a relationship at the foundation.

Zooey: The good news, Smitten, is that there are plenty of folks out there who are ready to accept you for everything you are. Our friend of the show from earlier said, “Dating while being a zoo has been pretty easy for me so far. When my last boyfriend found out, he was very much for it and encouraged me.“ And everyone’s favorite rat in goggles has been married for several years without having to hide his sexuality from either his husband or his various sexual partners. And, well, you know me. Zooey as a Japanese macaque —

Vee: Oh, deer!

Zooey: — yet everyone wants a piece of me, and honestly, can you blame them?

Vee: We wish you the best of luck, Smitten. You deserve a human partner that cherishes your zooish gift as it so justly deserves. Up next, we have a letter from Billy in Bakersfield. Billy writes, “Dear Zooey: Help! I got into some horny goat weed the other day and made some decisions I’m not proud of. Look, we were curious, she was in college, I was horny. Things went downhill from there, and suddenly we’re lying in a field of flowers together, the smell of human clinging to my hair, the taste of her still wet on my mouth… It was just one time. I’m not a zoophile or anything, but… college! Horny goat weed! I can’t stop thinking about it. I know I should be a virile billy and breed every doe I see on the farm, but all I can think about is that farm girl, and how soft her hands were… What does it mean if I’m into human girls? I don’t know if I’m ready for that kind of change.”

Zooey: Ahh, I see you gave it the old college try – quite the try, from the sounds of things. That can be pretty confusing. Also beautiful and exciting and wondrous… and you don’t have to blame the weed for any of it, our horny young colleague.

Vee: There are times in our lives that we have an experience that challenges everything we’ve come to believe about ourselves – an experience that helps us become who we truly are, to live and love as we’re meant to do (Insert a personal experience, if you’d like to.) But Billy, here’s the truth: you can have these experiences and still be you! What you choose to do, and with whom you do it, that’s who you are! These concepts like straight, gay, or zoosexual, are merely tools we use to more easily convey something complex about ourselves to others. You aren’t doing anything other than what comes from the most beautiful centre of who you are. The labels aren’t you; you are you – and who you are is as beautiful as is the memory of the love you shared with someone new, no weed neccessary.

Zooey: I seem to recall a certain macho stallion from an earlier episode who needed similar advice! And, last we heard, he and his delicious young man have been lighting up their corner of the world with love, joy, happiness… and more raw, pounding, sweaty hot sex than any two studs of any species could ever dare to make claim to. So, a happy ending: many happy endings, all wrapped into a great big happy climax to a story this delicious Dane has brought to mind more than once when a bit of extra horsepower was needed to make everyone’s endings happy and hard and hot and all that spurts and springs up with a sexy smile… oh yes, when we find the centre of ourselves and when that centre brings us deeply into sexual splendor with a partner (or partners) primed for us and everything we are… that’s the most blazingly brilliant thing under the sun.

Vee: Ah, yes, I remember that sexy story – who doesn’t? And it’s a great reminder that being who we are is always the best we can be. So Billy, here’s my advice: any sexual activity you engage in that’s mutually consensual and enjoyable is perfectly fine. No, wait, it’s a damned sight more than just “perfectly fine” – it’s wondrous and gorgeous and it’s the best of who we all are. You aren’t defined by the words or categories that get pulled along behind the wondrous reality of what you and your lover share; they’re just words, whilst you are you! You can enjoy sex with beautiful farm girls without changing your entire identity. You ask: what does it mean? It means that you’re still the same ol’ Billy goat – and that you have even more beauty and lust and wonder in you than you previously knew.

Zooey: Now, I’m naturally fabulous and there’s not much in the way of self-deprecation to be had when the self is me, but I’ll tell you an embarrassing story about Toggle that he doesn’t want me to tell, on one condition. Listeners, all of you, promise you won’t tell him what I’m about to share because when that rat’s got a stick up his little butt, let me tell you… it’s not a fun side of him, no not one bit. Ok well a little bit, because he’s so damned cute when he’s angry! Anyhow, no no – we mustn’t tell, right? Word of honor, and all the rest…

Vee: Color me interested.

Zooey: When Toggle first discovered he was gay – and I know honey, that’s like thinking about when the sun discovered that it’s hot – he thought he had to be gay. To, well, do all those gay-type things that make being gay such a gay good time, you know? Top to bottom (and it’s Toggle, so there’s plenty of bottom going on with that sexy little rat!), he had to hit every gay button on the great big gay tree of homo. Every bloody one!

Vee: Oh, dear.

Zooey: That’s right, Vee. He put on his guyliner, tried to adopt an affectation, wore skinny jeans and pink shirts. Really hammed it up, limp wrist, Judy Garland, and all. But eventually he realized that all that wasn’t him, and that being gay wasn’t about outward displays of whatever the non-gay world had somehow decided is involved in being gay. He figured out that being gay was just another aspect of who he already was. He could wear the leather jackets and the rock band graphic tees, drop the lisp and the make-up, let go of the Streisand affectations… and still be his big ol’ gay self. Nothing had to change: Toggle was Toggle, and he’s still Toggle, and part of Toggle is being as gay as a tree full of the gayest goddamed parrots this gay world has ever seen. That’s just what being Toggle is about, a part of the whole Togglish celebration of Toggledom. And that’s the same for you (though perhaps with a whole lot less of the uber-gay): you’ve just discovered something new about who you already are.

Vee: I think it’s also fair to suggest that a one-time fling where you explored something new doesn’t necessarily mean that your entire sexuality is undergoing a radical, permanent evolution into something. It might be a first step towards that kind of evolution; equally it may well be something you tried and that isn’t a central part of who you are. Either way, it’s all good – and it’s a great part of manifesting everything great inside you: all good, no bad, no doubt, no worries.

Zooey: This is undeniably true. We’re constantly learning things about ourselves and what we like. This could just as easily be something you try and decide that it’s not for you. But, Billy, given your sexy, delicious narration of how that sensual human girl with the soft hands is always on your mind, I’d say you’ve opened a wondrous new part of your soul and that you’ll find it more than pleasurable to see where that adventure leads.

Vee: In either case, Billy, we wish you the best of luck – not that there’s likely to be much luck involved. Embrace who you are, and don’t worry about having to change to match some pre-conceived notion of what you should be. You are you, and that soft-handed young lady who caught your eye (and likely a bit more of you, to boot) is blessed to have the chance to be part of you becoming even more you. Thanks for giving us the chance to share in that, as well, and we hope you’ll drop a line when you’ve got a minute, so we can keep tabs on how things have come to be in your great adventure into the zooish beauties of sex.

Zooey: Our last letter of the night comes from a Princess in Portland. The Princess asks, “Dear Zooey: I know every dog is different in the bedroom, but I know there are some general patterns across breeds. Pitbull males are energetic and enthusiastic, but a bit smaller in girth, while Great Danes are lazy with big, fat cocks and knots. I’ve always wondered, though: What’s a husky like?”

Vee: Hmm. I don’t have any experience with that, myself.

Zooey: Oh, honey, when it comes to that sort of experience, you can trust and believe I’ve got all the answers you need. Huskies are… well, if you’re a size queen – and, let’s just get right out front with the old saw that there’s only two kinds of zoos: size queens, and liars – you might not be blushing with lust at the legendary dimensions of those handsome Husky boy bits. But queens and liars alike, there’s more to a heavenly stud lover than just the raw dimensions of his toolset and when we get into that bigger terrain, oh, those Husky heroes do have mighty long ties. And that means that if you like to go all night, your handsome Husky paramour will take you there. They can be a bit idiosyncratic with regards to enthusiasm: if they’re not into it, boy, do they let you know! But when they’re down to pound, look out! They’re a bit wolfish in their sexual preferences: they either like you, or they don’t. Not a whole lot of middle ground. Naturally, of course, they’ve always had a great time with me.

Vee: Goodness! You’re a canine cock connoisseur!

Zooey: Trust and believe, honey, this great dane knows how to bring those handsome studly canines to a place full of pleasured howls and wagging tails and everything else that comes along with the best sex of our lives. And what’s more spectacular than sharing that kind of ecstasy with someone as gorgeous, as perfect, as sublimely studly as our beloved stud dog heroes. But, that’s all the time we have for tonight! Thanks so much for tuning in! We look forward to answering all your zooey relationship questions next episode! Keep those submissions coming!

Vee: We’ll see you next time on Ask Zooey! Same zoo time, same zoo channel!


A note: Alusky

Fausty: Although this doesn’t really tie in (get it… “tie” in…) with this episode’s theme, nevertheless we’d like to make an announcement.

Toggle: Apart from an excuse to make that amazingly overdone “tie” double-entendre, which I know never gets old for you…

Fausty: gotta go right with the elder abuse theme, don’t you kiddo?

Toggle: Sure, right… elder abuse. Of course. Anyhow as I was saying but was so rudely interrupted, yes we do want to make sure we say this now instead of waiting. Fausty, would you like to do the honours?

Fausty: oh no no… ladies first!

Toggle: I’m pretty sure that’s mysogynistic but not quite sure how, and anyway yes I’ll take the lead dog role here. Right so, folks active on twitter might be aware that Aluzky, an activist zoo and vegan who has been doing some pretty impressive stuff in terms of public outreach and bigot confrontation, has been particularly effective in reporting bigots when they do the usual bigot stuff like making death threats and otherwise abusing every possible rule against antisocial bullshit that twitter has.

Fausty: Yup. So instead of just sitting back and assuming “gee, I guess bigots get to issue explicit death threats against us, because reasons,’ he reports the cowardly shitbags to twitter. And, because twitter is sort of going through the motions of pretending that it is a viable platform for healthy social interactions, it’s been – shockingly! – actually reacting to some of the death threats and whatnot from bigots by actually taking action against these bigots when they are reported.

Toggle: Well, not always and not consistently but yes – sometimes twitter actually pulls its head out of its ass for just a minute and does something right.

Fausty: Aluzky has been really effective in reporting bigots like this, and he’s gotten dozens of them banned. Well, sorta – since many such bans, for death threats and stuff, which what the fuck, are temporary – and since bigots are cowards and hide behind sock puppet accounts, many such temporary bans are just banning disposable socks, it’s more of a symbolic thing than anything else. That said, what Aluzky’s been doing in this – and in many other areas – is pretty fucking solid, and pretty fucking effective despite the caveats.

Toggle: Elk yeah! It’s effective – the bigots have been flipping the fuck out about it!

fausty; Yup. Like all hypocrites and cowards, the bigots are shocked – shocked! – that THEY are actually being held to task, however minorly, for issuing death threats and stuff. But but… what has the world coming to? Wishing death on others because you have childish problems with healthy adult sexuality isn’t actually embraced by the world? So yeah, a bunch of sock accounts have been banned after doing dumb shit – and, crucially, after Aluzky trolls them into doing dumb shit (which he’s quite good at doing) and reports them for doing.

Toggle: So, naturally, being hypocrites and such, they don’t actually react to this well.

Fausty: No, no – of course not! Instead, they start mass-reporting HIM because he has been submitting reports of their death threats and stuff. Fraudulent reports, because obviously it’s not a violation to report bigots who actually ARE violating twitter’s rules.

Toggle: Yes, however twitter is so badly broken nowadays that if a bunch of morons all hit the “report” button at the same time, that carries tons of extra weight and suddenly that fraudulent reporting becomes magically legitimate in the eyes of twitter.

faust; Yup. Now, yes, obviously a grade school coder could easily whip up an algorithm that’s smart enough not to be fooled by mass-fraud reporting like this… but that’s way above twitter’s level of technical competence here. And, yes, there’s been more than a few credible reports that the bigots have some sort of insider “mole” that will act on fraudulent reports against sexual minorities. We’re following that up with more senior levels at twitter, but… twitter. So, “senior” can be a bit of a misnomer.

Toggle: which is all to say that it’s quite possible Aluzky will get censored by twitter for the “crime” of reporting bigots for breaking twitter’s actual rules against things like death threats.

Fausty: Yup. And, seeing this car wreck coming, we wanted to say two things.

Toggle: first, we wanted to thank aluzky for the excellent work he’s been doing and congratulate him for his successful trolling of bigots – showing them to be the violent, hypocritical monsters that they are.

Fausty: Absolutely! Hat’s off for solid activism, top to bottom. And second, wanted to offer any support we might be able to provide when it comes to whatever happens next. Bigots love to pretend that, as zoos, we’re isolated and alone and vulnerable to their candyassed abuse. We’re not – I know the truth of this as well as anyone. When I was being persecuted and demonised by bigots, this community stood by me and we now stand by Aluzky, come what may. I’m sure he knows he can reach out to us, however is convenient, and we’ll stand ready to do all we can.

Toggle: Absolutely.

fausty; For folks wanting to follow along firsthand on twitter, please be aware that there’s oceans of fake “Aluzky” twitter accounts out there created by bigots.

Toggle: Good point. Bigots are so confident in the rightness of their bigotry that they resort to dishonest shit like making fake accounts in the name of zoos and posting fake shit on them to point to and say “see how dishnest zoos are!”

Fausty: Which yeah… the hypocrisy is beautiful in its purity. And yeah, there’s lots of false-flag “Alyzky” twitter accounts out there – beware. If you’re not sure which is which, DM us and we’ll point you at the legit one.

Toggle: They’ve also done the “fake screenshot” thing to try to make it look like he’s said stuff he’s never said.

Fausty: Yup. Because twelve-year-old gamer morons are super amazing with photoshop and they know how to paste fake text into screenshots. Amaaaaazing tech wizardry!

Toggle: Activism comes in all sorts of flavours, and what Aluzky’s been doing is creative and courageous and sure as hell it makes an impact.

Fausty: Sometimes it takes balls to stand up to a screaming mob of violent bigots. I’d know. And we’re entirely supportive of folks like him who have the balls to do it well. Hat’s off.

Toggle: Hats off.



Fausty: Thanks, friends, for listening to Zooier Than Thou.

Toggle: Our next full moon episode is about being healthy, happy, and zooey.

Fausty: It’s gonna be well worth the wait, so don’t miss it for anything! Not even well-endowed pitbulls.

Vee: You can subscribe to the podcast via our RSS feed: just point your favourite podcast client at and off you go. You can even find us on Spotify, Youtube, Alexa, and Voldemort’s evil podcast scheme. If you don’t see Zooier Than Thou in your favorite podcast directory, drop us a note so we can rectify that tragic error!

Fausty: Our podcast’s website is, for reasons still known only to Toggle, Twitter @ZooierThanThou, and you can follow Zooey’s knotty advice @AskZooey. Follow Fausty @lecontespink — though I strongly recommend against it — and Toggle @OneBigGrumpyRat — for underground rap lyrics. Don’t be contumacious! Do it now!

Toggle: A reminder that we have a form that enables anonymous submissions to the podcast on our website,! You can also e-mail us at [email protected] You can share your recipes for delicious stallion semen mojitos, Ask Zooey about stud dog sheaths, or mail us a batch of fresh canine fortune cookies!

Vee: You can contact co-host Fausty through his website,, but I strongly recommend you don’t. It’s getting a little musky over there.

Fausty: Fight the patriarchy by sharing this episode of Zooier Than Thou with all your misogynist friends. We’re lookin’ at you, Jordan Petersen.

Vee: All nonhumans overseeing production of this episode are disgusted by human sexism, because seriously, what the fuck?

Toggle: If you stare into the void, the void will stare back. Wink at a mare, and she may just wink back, too!

Fausty: This is old man Fausty, and I may be old and broken down, but incels are pathetic. Be nice to each other, zoos of all gender flavors. It’s still the sexiest, zooiest thing you can do.

Vee: This is Vee, and if you’d like to summon me, draw a reverse pentacle in virgin lawyer’s blood, add a clove of roasted garlic, and read excerpt A from page 269 from your Treasured Copy of the Book of Zooish Lesbomancy.

Toggle: And this is Toggle, calling in too gay to work tomorrow, just like everyday before, and you’ve almost finished listening to Zooier Than Thou! Stay Defiant, fellow zoos! We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon!


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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guest: Volf

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Airport Lounge,” “Long Stroll,” “Lobby Time,” “Gymnopedie No.1 (Eric Satie),”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Old Time Radio American Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

“Sax Sexual,”
Smooth Jazz Sax Instrumentals, from the album “After Dark Jazz.”


Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


(Transcript Incomplete)


Fausty: Greetings, fellow zoos, and welcome to another media mongling episode of Zooier Than Thou! I am your passionate maniac, Fausty.

Toggle: And I’m Toggle, insightfully recognized by 12-year-old twitter royalty as a supporter of mass shootings.

Fausty: And we’ll be your press-schnozzling guides this episode.

Toggle: Boy oh boy, what a weekend!

Fausty:Suck my enormous, sweaty donkey balls, twitter. And I mean that with all my heart.

Toggle: (laughs) Some of you will actually like that.

Fausty: I always have.

Toggle: And some of you just can’t handle that kind of man.

Fausty: I always could.

Toggle: The best thing about twitter is laughing and having fun on twitter.

Fausty: You know me, I’m just a barrel of monkeys.

Toggle: That sounds kind of vicious.

Fausty: That’s what I mean. Did someone mention draft horse sheaths?

Toggle: No, Fausty, nobody mentioned draft horse sheaths. But now that you mention it, let’s have a moment of silence while we dream of draft horse sheaths.

Fausty: Whew.

Toggle: God damn, that was kind of intense.

Fausty: I enjoyed myself.

Toggle: I can see that.

Fausty: Shall we actually start this episode?

Toggle:Yes, let’s go ahead and start with a really long and wonderful e-mail from Brother Goodboy. We’ve had to edit it down a bit, cuz it was so long it broke our website e-mail submission system.

Fausty: Wow. Is there a character limit? We should fix that.

Toggle: Yeah, I don’t know what that’s about. Anyway, Brother Goodboy writes:

Hello, Zooier Than Thou hosts!

I just want to say, first off, that I really love the podcast, you’re doing such a great job with it. Being a zoo is one of the deeper circles, in a long list of things about myself that I’ve had to come to terms with in my life, and which I thought, once upon a time, that I would be alone with forever, and take to my grave, without ever telling another soul. From gay, to furry, to zoo… Each one of those was a struggle over time.

Yet, for even zoo, I eventually found others, some of whom I found really good connections with. And now, in real life even, I have a decently sized local community that gets together regularly, and with whom I can share the camaraderie of just simply being openly who we are together. It’s a really great feeling. I wanna let all the younger generation of new zoos out there who may be listening know that, if I can do it, so can you! There is hope, and you are not alone. And, I wanna thank you, Zooier Than Thou podcast, for the great thing you’re doing, with just simply being a presence and beacon of community.

Anyway! With all of that preface out of the way, I’d like to tell you a story, which is actually the main reason that I wanted to write in in the first place!

So, a couple of months ago, a fellow furry, but non-zoo (who I was not out to in that way) friend of mine, took me out to see a movie. The movie was called The Death of Dick Long, a somewhat indie film, that apparently had won some film festival awards, and was going around a small tour of the country before general release. After the lights dimmed, and the first few scenes started to play out, a ball of adrenaline burst in my stomach, my heart started pounding in my chest, and my palms could not stop sweating. I had no idea how I was going to be able to talk about this movie with my friend afterwards, much less sit still through it all, depending on how it went.

Yeah, so this is happening. The first quarter of the movie, I would have been hard pressed to say that I was not watching “Zoo”, the actual documentary.

Now… the thing of it is… As a zoo, you could be forgiven to expect that such a story would be done very poorly, and the main character to be portrayed as an evil cartoon villain. But, the movie did not do that, at all. This movie treated the character with respect, and as an actual, real, human being. In fact, in one of the last scenes, when the main guy knows that he’s gonna get caught, his very last act is, not to try to save himself, but instead, to try to save and free the stallion that he and his friends shared together for years, for fear of what would happen to the stallion. And that was pretty awesome.

There was another thing about this movie that really struck me. I have actually seen this plot before. This is exactly the plot of so many movies I used to see on cable, growing up as a kid in the 80’s, about some person being gay, and the world finding out about it. The whole thing. There is even one very specific movie that was showcased in the documentary, “The Celluloid Closet.”At one part in that movie, there’s this whole scene where the gay guy – husband, father – has just been discovered by his wife, and she’s totally screaming at him for being this monster (gay.) And finally he yells back, “Well maybe it is wrong! But it’s the only way that I know how to live!”

Now, a real gay person would not think that they are wrong. They know that the rest of the world is just fucked up about that, and that’s why they were forced to lie and hide who they are. But, back then, decades ago, that line was the closest that the straight world could come to conceding a point for letting a gay person be who they are. Thanks, straights. Baby steps I guess. ;-P

Fast forward 30 – 40 years later now, and (thankfully) you could not make that movie any more. The real, huge, totally ironic kicker here, about The Death of Dick Long, is (are you ready for this?) It is a LESBIAN cop that hunts them down. There is one final scene, where she is back at home, making dinner with her cute little domestic lesbian house wife. And she’s talking about the case, and how disgusting and sick in the head the main guy must be… but does manage to muster up some little bit of, don’t understand it, but ok, sympathy for him.

And I am just… screaming in my head… Do you even hear yourself right now? Do you see where you are right now? Do you fucking understand that, if this were 30 years ago, then this movie would be all about YOU, and how sick you are, for having the audacity to be in a loving relationship with this other woman? You monsters, you.

So, the movie ends. And the writer and director come out on stage, and give a whole long Q&A. Suuuper nervously, I raised my hand, and… I got called on. I brought up that same commentary that I wrote about above. I’d seen this sort of movie, about gay people in the 80’s. That used to be the big secret. And… their faces kind of fell, and they said something like, “Well no… I don’t really think that’s the same kind of thing.” And then they moved on. ;-P

So, that was disappointing. Not surprising, not unexpected. They made a really good movie about what it’s like to live in the world as a zoo. But, they still could not bring even themselves to quite understand it. And, they probably COULD NEVER EVEN HAVE IMAGINED that one of the subjects of their movie was there, trying to explain it to them! If only they knew. It’s a pretty good movie. Maybe they should watch it sometime.

Anyway! Apart from my small local group, I’ve been feeling a little alone with that story, and I wanted to share it with you! I hope you enjoyed it. The Death of Dick Long is a very good movie, and I think that all zoos should see it. (They’re also the film makers behind Swiss Army Man, by the way – another good film, that everyone should see!)

Thanks for listening, love the show, stay Zooey!

Brother Goodboy


Media Mastery

  • Trying to second guess how the world will look at what we do is a fool’s errand
    • we can’t frame ourselves around what they think they’ll think
    • do the right thing first. step two is appearances.
    • never do things because of how you want things to look
      • they don’t look at us in an objective, fact-based way
  • Smart social media – SonicFox – media mastery
    • AOC
  • I don’t need a journalist to tell my story as a minority
    • Black Lives Matter — Immediacy, Power
      • Couldn’t be throttled by conventional society
      • It was created and shared by the communities for which is was important
      • no permission needed
  • Mainstream media has failed in telling our stories
    • not interested; lied about our stories
    • marginalized communities are never given a platform
      • they have to fight the gatekeepers
      • The old model – part of the apparatus of persecution and control
        • silences
        • erases our existence
        • dehumanizes
  • We have to manifest a confidence in our own narrative, because that’s historically what we’ve not had
    • We must do more than stand in opposition to positions
      • New platforms requires us to stand in support of what matters to us
      • constructive, rather than destructive
      • We don’t find our voice through opposition to other narratives
        • dead end
        • fighting false narratives without constructing and empowering your own narrative
        • lacking a narrative means lacking agency
          • dead
        • people will derail our narratives; bated into reacting to bullshit
        • AOC
        • Tweet what you want; ignore what you want
  • We are not used to speaking in our own voice about things we are passionate about
    • systematically silenced, internalized silence
      • inner city schools
        • self-censorship
  • Media empowerment, owning our own media presence
    • spectacularly, gorgeously weird
    • to be ourselves is all we have to do
    • our diversity is a feature, not a bug
    • it’s not a question of crafting the perfect message
    • it’s about stepping forward and being complete human beings
  • Laws are psychological warfare
    • not to protect anybody
    • they’re to make you feel like a criminal
    • anything harmful is already illegal, and can be applied everywhere
  • The opposition we face on twitter is childish
    • political twitter is actually more vehement
    • a critical part of media mastery is knowing who to tune out
      • you have that power!
    • experiment with the tools you have
      • DO IT
        On behalf of zooTT and our listeners, we want to thank you for what you did, for using your voice to present an honest and powerful view of our community.


Interview with Volf

  1. What do you feel was the most important point that you made in the interview?
  2. Was this the first time you’ve done an interview in your own voice?
  3. What was it like to talk about your identity in your own voice?
  4. What advice would you give others who may be considering these kinds of opportunities in the future?
  5. Thinking specifically about the hosts, do you feel like they were genuine in their desire for dialog, or was it a pretext for a pre-ordained kangaroo court?
  6. Given the vastly larger footprint of this podcast compared to where you were interviewed, what would you like to say to those two hosts… who we’re quite sure are listening to this podcast about their show?


Fausty: Thanks, friends, for listening to Zooier Than Thou.

Toggle: A reminder that our next full moon episode celebrates, explores, and receives learning and wisdom from women in our community!

Fausty: It’s gonna be well worth the wait, so don’t miss it for anything! Not even draft horse stallion sheaths!

Toggle: You can subscribe to the podcast via our RSS feed: just point your favourite podcast client at and off you go. You can even find us on Spotify, Youtube, Alexa, and the unmentionable. If you don’t see Zooier Than Thou in your favorite podcast directory, drop us a note so we can rectify that tragic error!

Fausty: Our podcast’s website is, for reasons known only to Toggle, Twitter @ZooierThanThou, and you can follow Zooey’s knotty advice @AskZooey. Follow Fausty @lecontespink, and Toggle @OneBigGrumpyRat!

Toggle: A reminder that we have a form that enables anonymous submissions to the podcast on our website,! You can share your brilliant plans for world domination via zooish media mastery, Ask Zooey about variations in canine semen bouquet, or make an ass of yourself by challenging us to an interview and backing out.

Fausty: You can contact co-host Fausty through his website,, or smooch your missive into your favorite draft horse stallion’s massive sheath. He probably won’t get it, but what the hell, it’s fun for everyone involved. Also, messenger pigeons!

Toggle: Does Zooier Than Thou make you randy, baby? Then share the love with everyone you know!

Fausty: All nonhumans involved in the production of this episode think human media are boring. We’re very sorry. They’re absolutely right.

Toggle: Did you know that all unicorns are incredibly horny? It’s almost magical!

Fausty: Especially draft horse unicorns! Be nice to each other. It’s the sexiest, zooiest thing you can do. This is old man Fausty, and I’m sitting here randy as a 18 year old thinking about draft horse sheaths!

Toggle: And this is Toggle, and I’m trusting and friendly and easy to get along with, unlike Fausty, and you’ve almost finished listening to Zooier Than Thou! Stay Defiant, fellow zoos! We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon!

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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Lobby Time,” “Airship Serenity,” “Bossa Antigua,” “Airport Lounge,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,” “Variety Show Segment Intro Tv Music,” “Tv Talk Show Intro Music,” “Radio Show Finale Fanfare,” “Old Time Radio American Music,”  
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

“The Four Seasons – Spring – Movement 1 Allegro,” written by Vivaldi, performed by John Harrison with the Wichita State University Chamber Players

“Tempel Iaru,” by Pyramidal, from the album Dawn in Space, provided by “Free music for youtube videos”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 



(The Zooier Than Thou podcast contains mature content and language, and may not be appropriate for younger audiences. Thanks for understanding.)

Fausty: Greetings and salutations, friends and fellow zoos. Our warmest welcome to our latest full moon episode of Zooier Than Thou: 6.0. I’m still Fausty, that zoo who shows unwavering defiance in the face of bigotry, hatred, and stage four metastatic malignant melanoma… and I’m still not dead, damnit!

Toggle: And I’m Toggle, a 400 pound incel!

Fausty: As has become traditional, we’ll be your co-hosts for this episode’s adventures and escapades.

Toggle: Wow, what a week.

Fausty: Indeed, my friend. Indeed. It’s been one heck of a week.

Toggle: With Zooier Than Thou growing from a novel idea into… well into something that means a lot to lots of zoos around the world, there’s been real pressure behind the scenes to keep setting high standards – and keep meeting them. That’s not just about what gets produced – the podcast – but it’s also about how we get there, and how we work with each other along the way. Everyone working to make this podcast what it is wants to see it keep doing good things – and everyone has different ideas about what it takes to do it.

Fausty: Apart from providing cheesy puns and gratuitously zooey in-jokes, it’s largely my job around here to keep the process side of things running smoothly – from task admin tools through scheduling procedures. Along the way, I do my best to set a good example in how I work with others and in how we, collectively, work with each other. When things fall apart there, I know it’s time to hit the brakes and make sure we get it right. This week I did just that, and we’ve taken some time to step back, evaluate where we’re at, and decide on what needs to be improved.

Toggle: And more than that, Fausty, you yourself have felt like things were not right. And some of that actually came down to a discussion you and I had about, shall we say, a somewhat esoteric question of grammatical analysis. Of all things.

Fausty: Yep, that’s not wrong. I got to where I had lost confidence in how I’ve been managing things, and I got to feeling like we as a team were losing sight of what’s central to everything we strive for in this podcast: mutual respect, celebration of diversity, community engagement, rigorous analysis, and perhaps above all else a shared sense of belonging and wellbeing. Once we run astray there, I know from my experience as a leader and as a zoo that we’re not going to make the durable, meaningful progress that’s so important to us all.

Toggle: No question that you take that stuff seriously. This week, you stopped dead in your tracks and meticulously picked through every element of what we’re doing. I hope by now that you feel like those worries are put to rest – or at least put into a place where you don’t feel they are barriers to the future?

Fausty: Well, yes. Yes, I do. I feel like we’ve made some important progress and, personally, I am honoured by and grateful for the support, kindness, loyalty, dedication, and caring I’ve seen from so many friends and colleagues on this project and in our community. I’ve learned alot about what it takes to nurture a spectacularly effective project management culture within our zoo world – and I’ve learned from my own mistakes in approaching things like I would as a leader of tech projects, as opposed to what we’re doing here. Overall, It’s been a humbling, challenging, frightening, inspiring, empowering week. Wow… that’s alot of “ing’.”

Toggle: You can get a bit lost in the ing’s, big fella – it’s ok.

Fausty: It’s not all broad generalizations and vague platitudes – I promise. We’re also moving forward with some “in the future” components of Zooier Than Thou that are ripe for rollout. Sometimes it’s not easy to keep up with how fast this podcast has gone from an idea to… something bigger than any of us, individually. So without further ado, what’s on the agenda, my gonad-challenged colleague? I see you sitting over there, rolling your eyes at my “too many words” blather and uniquely historical perspective…

Toggle: Right, ok well… and just between you and I, double-dog-secret for now, but we’re experimenting with some more formal ways that listeners can participate more directly in bringing each episode together. Like: we’re asking for help in producing transcripts of each episode – I do that now, in my ‘spare time’ (ha!)…

Fausty: …in other words, it doesn’t really get done because you no longer have any more spare time.

Toggle: Exactly! I don’t – and that’s ok, since more of my time goes into other parts of the podcast nowadays. So that’s one place we’re grateful for listener help – if you want to lend a paw, let us know. Same goes for, let’s see… translations – already a few folks offering to pitch in, there. And we’ve been testing out a “contributor’s chat” to create space to work with everyone helping out with the podcast: operationally, voice talent, outreach, financially. Everyone who cares enough to help make it sing, basically, is the idea.

Fausty: I’m testing out some collaboration tools alongside the Telegram contributors’ chat, such as github to fine-tune transcripts and translations. And we’re always keen to hear from folks who can help with tech admin tasks. Although I’m doing ok, I do have terminal cancer and it’s essential that we avoid bottlenecks dependent on me for long-range project success. We need to expand our tech admin bench, so let me know if you swim in those waters and are able to pitch in. Yes, Toggle, I see you raising your hand over there like a kid in junior high…

Toggle: Oh piss off, you silly old dog. Can you update everyone on your cancer situation? I know some of what makes things… emotionally charged, sometimes, with you is that you’ve got this whole other thing going on behind the scenes and maybe it’s good for you to open some of that up instead of doing the stiff-upper-lip demonstration?

Fausty: Which I suck at anyway, so who’s kidding who, right? So yes: cancer. Two weeks ago, I went in for radiation treatment of a lesion that has appeared in my cerebellum – the brain area that controls balance, movement, and such. So far the treatment appears successful, though it wasn’t as much fun to have gamma rays focussed into my brain for an hour as it sounds like upfront. I’m still receiving adjuvant targeted chemotherapy to control further spread of the melanoma tumors, and so far that’s been successful. Overall I’m not dead – which is a good thing – and overall I could be and have been much sicker than I am now. What happens next? Nobody knows, that’s the simple truth. I could be dead in two weeks… or alive two decades from now.

Toggle: And meanwhile you’re staying active, aren’t you?

Fausty: Right, yes: active. I’m in training for a 50k trail ultramarathon in November, in Virginia. It’s an optimistic goal, and I’m doing everything I can to turn that goal into an accomplishment. And I’m deeply grateful for everyone who has taken the time to share kind thoughts, good advice, genuine encouragement, and motivational stories – I’d never had survived this long, gotten this far, without that. It reminds me just what it means to be part of a community – a real community, with shared goals and group loyalty and a collective dedication to making the world a happier, healthier, wilder, funnier… zooier place, for everyone. You folks fucking rock – all of you. A special thanks to a certain D and a certain R – two extraordinary folks amidst an extraordinary community. Thank you so much for everything you’ve shared. I am honoured. Namaste.

Toggle: This whole project is about you, zoo nation, and we’re thinking of you every step of the way. And in that spirit, let’s tackle a couple of e-mails!

Fausty: First up, we’ve got one from The Wondering Wolf.

Toggle: The Wolf writes: “I’m quite new to the zoo community and see myself as at least an ally if not a zoophile myself. I listened to this episode at last after talking to Toggle on twitter and being recommended to listen to it since I was asking about pride and experiences about being a zoo.” He’s talking about the zoo pride episode. “I may not have gotten to know you Fausty, but I know how important it is to embrace being yourself and to listen to others. I thank you for being open and genuine and I thank the podcast in general for giving zoophiles a voice that otherwise may not be heard. Take care, stay safe and of course stay zooey!”

Fausty: Whether Wandering or Wondering, Wolf, your welcome is… I ran out of alliterative w’s, sorry sbout that! Anyhow, welcome – new zoo.

Toggle: Or zoo ally, at least. For those who missed it, I actually did bite the bullet and start a personal zoo twitter account last month, and it’s been kind of a blast, which I didn’t really expect. This fella did actually contact me and asked me, apropos of nothing, what being a zoo meant to me and when I first realized I was a zoo, etc. etc.. And so I simply pointed him to the podcast episode from Zoo Pride Day.

Fausty: I’m too scared to get on twitter – seems so technical and complex, and I’m just not good with computers. Sad!

Toggle: Fausty, you dork. He’s been on twitter since, like, before twitter started or something, handle @lecontespink. He also helps run the @crossspecies twitter account, and the bigot’s blocklist. Since he won’t say it, I will: what with terminal cancer and all that, he’s barely been on twitter since this spring. So if you tried to contact him and he didn’t reply, please don’t be pissed at him. There’s all sorts of ways to contact him listed on his website – you can get there via Or DM me and I’ll get you in touch with him, if it comes to that. He’s doing his best, really he is. Also, if you’re interested, you can check out my personal twitter @OneBigGrumpyRat. Remember, though, that if you follow, it IS a public account and people CAN see that you’re following, even if your account is locked.

Fausty: Wow, that’s… embarrassingly honest. Thank you. Reminds me that we got a private email that, generally, brought up the question of whether it’s ok to promote zoophilia – obviously I can’t share details, because private email. I did want to reply by saying that I don’t see anything we do as promoting zoophilia – any more than a podcast covering the LGBT community is promoting homosexuality, or whatever. Because there’s zoos as part of the constellation of human sexual diversity – always have been, always will be. It’s part of our genetic heritage, inherent in what it means to be human. So we’re not really promoting something that exists whether we do something or nothing at all. What we do promote is healthy expressions of zooish orientations, respectful zooish relationships, and a positive zoo community within which we may continue to bring out the best in each other and celebrate the best of who we – and our partners – are. And, I mean, obviously it’s good to promote constructive and healthy expressions of who we are – that’s good for everyone, and it’s well worth the effort. We are as good – or as bad – as we choose to be, and as we help each other to become. Nobody outside of us makes us either good or bad; that’s up to us. Everything we do here at Zooier Than Thou promotes precisely that; doing our best, being our best, bringing out the best in each other.

Toggle: There’s no one right way to “do zoo” – the diversity in our community is breathtaking and beautiful and just plain bodacious. Dog zoos. Horse zoos. Cervine and porcine and ursine and a whole bunch of other ine’s – we’re as different as can be imagined – and also we’re all zoos because for us the world is bigger than just hairless monkeys with two legs and weird swollen skulls. We’re all zoos because we all know that seeing the world through the eyes of someone different from us is pretty much the single most amazing thing a human being can every do – and as zoos we do it effortlessly, as part of who we are and who we love and how we connect to the world around us. Sometimes it’s fucking hard – “brick hard,” the greymuzzle currently staring out the window and dreaming of Mr. Peanut Butter might say – because diversity means we’re not all the same. That’s ok – we work it out and we remain friends even through the rough spots. That’s also what it means to be a zoo: we watch each others’ backs even when we don’t always see eye to eye. Community is loyalty and loyalty is huge.

Fausty: Did someone say “Mr. Peanut Butter?” Anyhow, apparently not… I don’t see him anywhere. Damnit. Who’s up next?

Toggle: None of your Business, Dog fucker!

Fausty: What the elk, Toggle? It’s fuck-ee, not fuck-er – get it right, rodent. And don’t get my hopes up – this studio is as canine-free as the Trump White House. The horror, the horror….

Toggle: No, silly, that’s actually the alias they chose: “dogfucker.”

Fausty: Oh right ok – fair enough.

Toggle: None-ya writes, “You bunch of absolute assholes need to stop spreading your lies about zoophilia. It’s illegal, immoral, illogical, and is just an excuse for you bunch of fags to not get laid. You both sound like a bunch of 400 pound incels, especially the faggot who puts on a voice in your videos.”

Fausty: Geez, had to come at me about my weight problem – that hurts! Oh hold on, no it doesn’t – I can barely hold 200 pounds nowadays, between the chemotherapy and the weekly training coming up towards 40 miles of trail work per. So actually that’s funny – I bet I know who IS fat and lazy and out of shape… and that’s the sad-piece who sent this awesome bundle of fail.

Toggle: “Also, PS, the LGBT community doesn’t want your sick asses. Respectfully yours, None ya.”

Fausty: Wow. I’m not sure where to begin unpacking this one.

Toggle: Honestly, insults are a lot less hurtful when they’re not based in any sort of reality. And I gotta love the added touch where they inform us about the wishes of LGBT community while calling us fags.

Fausty: Honestly, this whole message is a choclatey, hot mess from top to bottom.

Toggle: Pretty pathetic. Not the most pathetic hatemail we got this week, but a close second. And, incidentally, also the second hate mail we’ve ever gotten! Congrats! You’re second best, and second worst, all at once!

Fausty: Being called an incel by an actual incel is recursively lol-worthy. Though I suppose chemo does sorta make me celibate occasionally – comes with the territory. Can’t say I’m feeling particularly ashamed of that… hold on… yeah no, not at all. I tried, but sorry: nope.

Toggle: Thanks for your heartfelt e-mail, None-Ya. It was kind of fun getting hate mail for a change! Also, you left your IP address behind, and Comcast is happy to help pin down your account information so we can press charges. Which, geez, you should have read up on Fausty before sending us hate mail from your home IP address. That’s about as dumb as calling him a 400-pound incel. Ok actually it’s even dumber. Why? Take 10 minutes and figure it out yourself. You’ll be glad you did – well actually you’ll shit yourself. Oh well. Next one, Fausty?

Fausty: Let’s get a good one in real quick.

Toggle: Sure! Here’s one from Oz!

Fausty: Is it a wizard?

Toggle: I dunno – let’s find out! Oz writes, “I am an old equine-zoo! I was a long time reader and poster on BF and you may be familiar with some of my writings (and videos). I have always tried to help younger zoos who are dealing with guilt issues to gain a perspective about the human condition and what we really are. I also tried to capture my true love of my mare friends in my (admittedly) pornographic videos.”

Fausty: I could go on about exactly why there’s nothing wrong with good, healthy, positive, respectful, genuine porn… and a hell of a lot that the opposite of wrong with it, but I’ll make the uncharacteristic decision to batten my pie-hole on the subject. For now. Barely. Under extreme duress.

Toggle: Porn is love! Oz continues, “I want to tell you that I was very impressed by the first program I listened to, especially as regards difficulties with mixed human-zoo relationships. I know how hard it is to produce a program like that, and you did it with amazing grace and flair.”

Fausty: All credit for the excellence in production quality that’s become a standard for Zooier Than Thou goes to my co-host and colleague, Toggle. He’s a badass in the studio – and in bed, to boot. Wait no, not the bedroom – that’s all kinds of wrong. Sorry, I was thinking about Mr. Peanut Butter. My bad. Please do continue…

Toggle: You’re hopeless, you know that Fausty? Oz continues, “I have a possible topic for you, and that is the treatment of zoos in the Puritan colonies, particularly the story of Thomas Grainger. For some reason, the barbarity of what that self-righteous bunch did to that poor kid ranks in the darkest annals of human depravity. I even wrote a poem about it! Anyhow, keep up the great work! If we are ever to gain any acceptance at all, it will be through work like yours!”

Fausty: Right, first off many thanks for that message – it’s always a pleasure to hear from folks who’ve been ‘round a minute, and always nice to receive an historical lesson – in fact, I’m ignorant of this story, or was prior to receiving this note.

Toggle: Yes, Fausty, ok. You’ve made your point – and then some – with the “an.” I see you smiling over there, don’t fucking act like it’s coincidental, you dog-fuckee-not-really-because-chemo-and-thus-dog-incel-for-now. Dog almighty, you really are incorrigible, you know that? Back to the subject at hand: I remember reading about Thomas Grainger in college, though I can’t remember in what context I was studying puritans. I read an entry from one of the puritans who was doing record keeping at the time, and it basically lamented the fact that in order to actually make the journey and survive the new world, puritans had to rely on “heathens” in order to get by. Puritans didn’t know how to sail, or farm, or frankly do anything. In essence, these were people that were disconnected from the land, and they needed people who knew basic survival skills to keep the colony afloat. That meant bringing along people who didn’t share their faith, and Thomas was among them. When Thom was caught in mid-coitus with a mare, they questioned him, and he confessed to having relations with a number of animals. These people were trying to establish a land based on God’s law, and they were not lenient. Tom had to name the animals he’d slept with and watch them all be slaughtered before finally being put to death himself. If that sounds fucked up and barbaric, well, that’s because it is, and yet somehow, it’s not very far off from how this sort of thing can go today, minus the zoo actually being executed as well.

Fausty: Can’t say I wasn’t targeted for attempted execution, myself, a couple of times in the past decade – each time via extra-legal violence, sure, but it’s a bit of a thin distinction when you’re on the receiving end. And coming out of what I’ve been through myself, my first reaction to the story is to completely doubt that the version that made it into print – and down to us, today – reflects the facts of what happened with Thom. Oh, I have no doubt those fundamentalist fanatics murdered him – that’s one thing religious zealots have been consistently good at: killing dissenters. But caught in flagrante delicto with a mare? Colour me doubtful. Thom lists off all the other “animals” with whom he shared intimacy? Yeah, sure – under torture, or coerced to list every critter he’d ever seen? Yah, more likely. Fact is, nobody recorded Thom’s version of the story – history isn’t written by the victims of persecution and genocide, not the way it works. So we have this just-so story of equine assignation and I call horseshit. More likely – and more along with what we know about actual facts versus what the puritan genocidaires spun out ex post facto – Thom ran afoul of the exiled bigots for some other reason…. maybe he was too nice to the mare in question, which those God-fearing fascists wouldn’t condone since she’s an animal, created so scum like them can abuse and torment her until she’s too old to work, then kill her without one iota of compassion or kindness. That’d be more than enough, and what better story than sex – anything but that, anything! – to come up with a pretense for a good, fun murder-session of human and nonhuman alike. That, yes, I can see. There’s nothing nice about the story – it’s tragedy for every victim of that bigotry, prejudice and hate: as yesterday, so today. Let us honour not only his memory but the memory of those four-legged victims who died alongside him – martyrs to intolerance and human solipsism. Fuck that shit, and fuck the people who continue to spew it forth even today.

Toggle: A tragic story, a tragic history, a tragic lesson we’re all well-reminded to remember and honour… thanks, Oz! And thanks for the poem! I’m holding onto it to share later on!

Fausty: We got one more, here, I think, and it’s from our old friend, the friendly neighborhood zoosexual! Nice to hear from you again! Our pal here is weighing in on the last episode’s topic about safety.

Toggle: Friendly writes, “So it sounds like mentioning my sexuality on my Linked In was probably not wise! In all seriousness, though, this episode brought to mind several aspects that had never occurred to me, notably on how no reaction might be the best the best reaction, kind of like in regards to dealing with a bully. It’s been a while sense the last time Ive done anything social in the zoo world as the kind of job that I have, if it where to become known that I was a zoosexual, it would not only be devastating to me but also to many others as as well. Not that I’m made miserable by my job by any means. Quite the opposite in fact! Anywho, it was quite interesting hearing everyone’s views on the matter. Actually, this episode left me felling a bit safer! Wishing all 3 of you the best!”

Fausty: We’re always glad to hear from you, and it’s great to hear that the Safety Dance episode helped catalyse some self-analysis on your part. Good security is all about conscious, intentional, flexible balancing of multiple factors… and it sounds like you’re doing exactly that. Keep it up, and keep sharing what you’ve learned with others you know so they can benefit, as well. That’s how it’s done.

Toggle: I’m glad to hear that this episode made an impact! And I really hope it manifests in good decisions and continued, safe community engagement.

Fausty: Thanks for checking back in with us, Friendly Neighborhood Zoosexual! We’ll see you next time!

Toggle: I think it’s time for us to talk about our topic here. What the world needs now is More Zooey Wisdom!

Fausty: Toggle and I actually were talking recently about relationships. Human relationships, if you can believe it.

Toggle: Humans? That’s just bizarre.

Fausty: Specifically, we were discussing sexuality and the sorts of expectations people find themselves beholden to in the bedroom.

Toggle: It was an innocent conversation about dicks – yeah I know, right? Big surprise! – that evolved into a tawdry philosophical discussion about our experiences with other guys missing two legs, and the greater implications for society of those interactions.

Fausty: My number one rule for sexual encounters is as follows: There is nothing more beautiful than knowing that someone with whom you’re sharing sexual intimacy is having the time of their life and that I’m fortunate enough to be part of that wonderful experience for them. That’s what it’s about. However many legs, whatever gender, however furry they are or aren’t… it’s about sharing pleasure, and more than that about enabling wondrous experiences with those you love. Sure I have my little preferences, here and there – we all do, no matter our species – but at core what I love is seeing someone happy. Ok also I love Mr. Peanut Butter – a love unrequired! So far.

Toggle: I’m a cock connoisseur. Big ones, small ones, regular ones, I love ‘em all for different reasons. But I’ve noticed how embarrassed people get over their size sometimes, and it’s like, “Dude, chill, this is perfect.” Or sometimes when people can’t keep it up, and the fact that they can’t keep it up makes them flustered, which makes it impossible to get hard.

Fausty: Performance anxiety.

Toggle: Exactly. But for me, none of that stuff matters. If we’re having a good time, it doesn’t matter that you have trouble staying hard. Fuck it, so do I. I’m on SSRI’s and so is half of America. It’s not a big deal.

Fausty: Toggle intuitively pointed out that this phenomenon – performance anxiety – is entirely based on human interactions. It doesn’t exist in zooey relationships. Not once has a stud dog been ashamed because he couldn’t keep it up (up? Not exactly right, but anyhow…) and stallions don’t worry they won’t meet expectations… because, I mean, they’re stallions! Sorry, seriously this whole “feeling bad about your sexual performance” is totally a human thing – it wasn’t until deep into my adulthood that I even ever really bumped into it, since my paramours didn’t, definitionally, have those sorts of problems. And as zoos, because our experiences come without judgement from our partners, we take that wisdom and we have the opportunity to give them back to our human partners. I can say with total confidence that I’ve never, ever made a human partner feel bad about his (or her… yes, or her) “performance” in the barn…. err I meant, the bedroom. I can’t even conceive of what would motivate someone to be like that with a lover, to be frank. Whatever the case, one part of being zoo is our awareness that human hangups about sex aren’t intrinsically sexual – they’re intrinsically human. To everyone else, such concepts simply don’t exist.

Toggle: Sex without feeling pressure to perform is truly incredible. Just enjoying the touch of other people, or the profound physical closeness of intimacy with a stud dog… it’s beyond words to dscribe. You just enjoy that time together. And that’s something a lot of non-zoos are missing out on.

Fausty: Zoos have insight into the nonhuman world that isn’t available to humans from anywhere else – that’s why we are part of the human genetic library and why we’ve always been inherent to what it is to be human. Without zoos, there’d be no domestication. No partnership with wolves, become dogs, become our best friends and closest allies and social peers. No horses sharing our lodgings, our hunting, our travels, our worlds… and our beds. Or we can say that without all that, there’d be no evolutionary pressure in favour of the zooish gift. Two sides of one coin. And, beyond that coin, it turns out that us zoos also have a thing or two of value to say about human sexual intimacy. How could we not – an uniquely zooish perspective is the betwixt and between: at once human and at once nonhuman – and a mix of both (one might even call us… Metis, right Toggle?).

Toggle: Fuck’s sake, Fausty. Yes yes – well-played! Are you happy now? I see you chuckling over there, so I’ll take that as a yes. Ahem, back to the point: we share an empathy with other persecuted minorities, which allows us to see how systems of power arbitrarily push down on different groups of people. We have a perspective that allows us to question convention and to challenge authority, because we know that what we take for granted as a society isn’t always based on fact, logic, or evidence.

Fausty: Amoungst the many wisdoms shared with us by our nonhuman friends and partners is the transformative power of kindness, kindness that’s not tied to identical worldviews or overlapping politics or close kin connections… indeed not tied to common species at all. And that kind of kindness has the potential to open doors of compassion and caring that, in turn, can and so many times in the past have changed our world for the better. That’s part of being a zoo, too: knowing that kindness, as recipients, and knowing how to share it, as initiators. We know how to be nice to other people – indeed, to love other people – whether those people look like us or not. Different skin colour is a big deal? Oh honey… that’s so trivial it’s cute. We’re all the same, at heart: we all live, we all hope, we all fear, we all weep, and we all love. Petty differences – skin, hair, paws, hooves, feather, fin, and fur… what binds us is so much more spectacularly wonderful than those things which set us apart. Hell, even rodents without balls – who don’t know when to add an “n” and when not to – are worthy of our kindness and maybe, just maybe… yes, even of our love. All those hangups that keep us apart? They’re stuff we make and enforce on ourselves – if we choose to. For it is true that we may also choose not to: not to be bound by the limits of what we once thought was possible, was available, was reasonable, was inevitable, was potentially ours. We, as zoos, have the power to choose to be so much more than what we would otherwise be – and, in doing so, to act as avatars of moral greatness for all those humans who are so sadly crippled by their inability to reach beyond the confines of their fellow naked monkeys. We can help those limited humans. We must help those limited humans. Whether they know how to ask for our help or not, we know that it is ours to offer and ours to share. This, we must always continue to do.

Toggle: We are different, and that’s not only OK, it’s important. We have something to offer the world, and the world could really use a bit of that right now.

Fausty: Stay tuned, friends. We’ve got plenty more profoundly zooey wisdom to expound upon – right after this!


This Episode’s Sponsors

Announcer: This week’s podcast is sponsored by:

Dog Day Afternoon Spa: Spend a magical, relaxing, therapeutic day lying naked on a massage table surrounded by man’s best friend. We specialize in facials!

And also by:

Zooey Dooey & Murrs: When bigotry threatens you & your beloved partners, it’s time for the draft horse stallions of the legal world: we fight back against hatred with facts, fury, & fanatical vigor. Discounted rates for zoos who stand loyal to our community, no matter what.

And finally:

By esoteric references that only small segments of our audience can appreciate. Esoterica: it makes you sound authentic!


Bestfinster Dog Show – Best In Show


(Zooey graciously played by special guest “Steve”)

Toggle: For this year’s Westmin… err “Bestfinster” conformation dog show, a radical new format was chosen for the ringside commentary broadcast live to listeners worldwide.

Before, censors were on-hand to censor any reference that executives felt was too “mature” when it comes to the show dogs in the ring. This, obviously, cut out a lot of what makes watching dog shows such a beautiful experience: the dogs – and bitches! Acting like they aren’t charismatic, gorgeous, beautiful, alluring… it was silly, artificial, and was driving away audiences in droves.

The new format gets rid of all that nonsense and, we’re proud to say, also includes Zooier Than Thou’s very own “Zooey” as one of the commentators broadcasting from ringside! That’s right: the Great Dane with the great mane, offering up her fabulous perspective on a topic she knows better than anyone: stunning sexual canine supermodels, any and all breeds.

Without further ado, here’s a sample from the climactic event of this year’s broadcast: Best in Show!

Announcer 1 (jaded) Ron: Welcome back, ladies and gentlemen, to this year’s live commentary of the BestFinster Dog Show. For those just now tuning in, the Best in Show presentation is just beginning. And, yes, we’re continuing with what our ever-wise studio executives have told us is to be a more “inclusive, honest, and genuine” approach to our commentary. Finally. About time we got to drop the bull droppings and open the windows for some fresh air.

Announcer 2 (straight) Stephen: Well, Ron, of course our network coverage of the August BestFinster show has always been, dare I say, best-in-class. Honesty is right at the centre of every year’s commentary, so it’s just a question of continuing our tradition of excellence. Nothing new about that this year!

Announcer 1 (jaded) Ron: Kid, the only thing honest about most of our previous commentary has been the name of the show. I’d know – I’ve been here in this seat for thirty years, and every year before now we’ve been on tape-delay status so the network censors could clip out anything genuine or honest we said about the stars of the show. Only place you’d see more clipping of what’s genuine is in the dumpster full of dog balls behind a vet’s office.

Announcer 2 (straight) Stephen: Ron! We all know you’ve been at this job a heck of a long time but that’s no reason to be crude! Besides, everyone knows that those little doggies need to be “fixed” so they can be happy little furbabies at the doggie daycare like all the other little doggies!

Zooey: Jesus, kid, listening to you talk about cutting some poor boy’s nuts off is almost as painful as knowing it happens so often… can we close that pretty little mouth of yours and keep a close eye on these gorgeous dogs – and bitches – about to take to the ring? I haven’t been so hot under the collar since last time I spent a weekend in a kennel full of bitches. Oh, the joys of synchronized estrus!

Announcer 2 (straight) Stephen: Well I never…

Announcer 1 (jaded) Ron: We know, kid, we know. You wouldn’t last an hour in a setup like that – those ladies would eat you alive and spit out the bones you don’t have in the places you damned well should.

Zooey: Boys, boys, let’s not bicker shall we? I was the first to lift a metaphorical leg on the idea of an unorthodox Best in Show class like this, but I’ll tell you right here and now that the parade of beauties we’re about to see is more than worth breaking any tradition under our sun. And if my ears don’t betray me… oh bountiful blessed one, here they come!

Ron: Right you are, my great-maned colleague, right you are. First up, it looks like we’ve got the Weimaraner bitch that captured everyone’s hearts – and a few more bits, to boot, for some men (and women) watching from ringside. She’s got style, she’s got grace, she’s got a topline you could use to teach ruler’s a thing or two about what straight means… and she’s got enough raw sex appeal to stop an aircraft carrier dead in the water.

Stephen: What I’m seeing, for our listeners less given to flights of fancy than my elderly coworker, is a female of the German breed from Weimar. A crowd favorite with picture-perfect adherence to the breed standard as written, this dog is a textbook example of good structure and good handler presentation…

Zooey: Textbook? Stevie, I don’t know what textbooks you’ve been reading, but the only textbook that sexy lady appears in wouldn’t be allowed in most any local library in the United States of Repression you call home. She’s so gorgeously hot, word amongst the zooluminati I know working security in the exhibitor’s area is that she’s been receiving so many suitor’s bouquets that there’s been problems with access to emergency exits in her corner of the building. A lady with assets to die for, she most certainly is.

Ron: Can’t disagree with you one bit on that, m’lady Zooey, not one bit. Gotta say, it might just be that a few of those bouquets might just be mine, they just might be… and she’s one heck of a date, that German gal. Or so I’ve heard from friends, I should say. And next into the ring is another German showstopper, the Rottweiler dog coming up from Group.

Stephen: Before Ron can make any off-colour jokes about this male dog, let me tell the listeners at home that it is exactly what is expected of the breed. Strong, stalwart, steady, and groomed to perfection.

Zooey: Steve, Steve, Steve… hearing you talk about a “male dog” is like hearing some gringo refer to “salsa sauce” – the cute gets swamped out by the dumb. No matter, since this delicious Rottie god is more than enough of a hunk to make anyone with hormones forget all that chattering noise. Just look at that sheath – a sheath anyone could lose themselves in, a sheath truly worthy of worship.

Ron: He’s more than just a sheath fit for the gods, Zooey, that German masterpiece is. Shoulders with enough angles to fill a graduate school class in non-Euclidean geometry, a gait with that impossible combination of fluidity and pure macho power, and family jewels impressive enough to single-pawed overturn that old critique of Rottie boys as studs with big knots and little nuts, he’s a contender in my book for Best in Bedroom.

Stephen: Well I don’t know what all that’s supposed to mean, if I’m being totally honest. What I do know is that this male dog is impressive and has clearly caught the eye of the judges…

Ron: Only one whose eye he hasn’t caught is you, a eunuch who wouldn’t know what to do with a stud like that any more than you’d know how to flap those skinny arms of yours and fly to the bloody moon.

Zooey: Ron! No need to be mean to the youngster – he knows not what he’s missing, and most likely never will. Enough of all that, here’s the GSD bitch that’s had half the continent up late fantasizing about her… and the other half asleep having dirty lovely dreams with her as star of the show! And oh Dog almighty, just look at that goddess on four paws…

Ron: I’ve… I’m… I don’t know what to say. She’s like a dream made real, a fantasy come down to Earth, enough beauty to stop clocks half a world away…

Stephen: I don’t see anything particularly unusual about it, to be honest – most all German Shepherds look alike, I’m sure we all agree, and in the end it comes down to checking the program to figure out what sex they are…

Zooey: Sex? Sex? When it comes to her, the program listing has her categorised as “oh please, yes please!” Any place, any time, and way – this Great Dane will obey in ways an OTCh can’t even imagine.

Ron: I’m still not… I don’t know how to… she’s simply… magnificent. Her tail carriage alone is enough to stop traffic. Those shoulders, they’re poetry made physical.

Stephen: Since my two, ahem, colleagues or whatever they claim to be, can’t quite find their words, I’ll be happy to be the responsible one and keep our listeners informed about the next entrant coming into the wind. This is, let me check the schedule… oh yes, this is the Beer-bull dog entry. A big, heavy thing with an air of menace, it seems to have won breed and group on the basis of intimidation alone. Not sure how a dangerous thing like that managed to get into BestFinster in the first place…

Zooey: Shut up, Stevie – your tiny voice intrudes on my fervid fantasy of that big man getting into me and staying there for hours. Intimidating? That, my boy, is the only thing you’ve got right so far tonight: I’d be intimidated to introduce myself to him, let alone ask him for attentions of a more carnal sort… he’s probably so used to adoring admirers trailing along behind him that he’s a veritable master of rejection. Such a terrible shame, isn’t it Ron?

Ron: Oh he’s not like that, not at all. I have it on good authority – very good, you might say – that he’s not only a perfect gentleman in the tradition of the best manners of South African Zulu culture, but he’s also happy to make time for a tie with adoring fans, be they shy or pushy. Oh yes, he’s everything a leading-man stud should be: virile, kind, confident, and rock-hard in the bedroom and in every place therein. I won’t soon forget our night… I mean, I won’t forget what I’ve heard about him.

Zooey: Ron, you lucky old goat, you! I couldn’t be more envious if I tried – and honey, I’ve tried.

Stephen: I just don’t know how much more of this I can put up with! It’s downright obscene, all this talk of abuse….

Ron: The only abuse around here is what’s caused by being locked in a broadcast booth with someone so ignorant of dogs that he doesn’t know the difference between a bitch and teddy bear. Good thing you won’t ever get within a country mile of anyone out there in that show ring – they’d laugh you out of the state with just a lolled tongue. Kid, you’re so far out of your league you’re not even playing the same sport.

Stephen: That’s it! I’m reporting this to senior management, right this second! (pulls out phone and makes dialing noises in the background)

Zooey: My deepest eternal thanks, my gentleman and scholar. Ron, you’ve saved the day – and just in time for the most dashing, the most handsome, the most utterly lust-worthy of them all: the Golden stud of dreams, the master of our shared sensual domain, the hero of every stag movie worth it’s celluloid, the one and only…

Ron: The hands-down favourite of the class he is, Miss Zooey, that he is. And for good reason. Impeccable balance, flawless extension at the trot – a trot that should rightly be called a “float,” coat beyond the wildest dreams of the most debauched furrier ever born to this planet, and – if what I’ve been told by those lucky enough to judge him in the past – a pair of balls so perfect, so heavy, so ineffably flawless as to evade even the most heartfelt attempt to sing their eternal praises… the perfect package, a package including a package to die for, a Golden beyond compare.

Zooey: Ron, if it comes down to you and I fighting for his attentions, I give fair warning that I will shamelessly resort to any and all stratagems and intrigues in service of earning his service – yes I will. Know you that!

Stephen: Well I never! I went right to the top, I’ll have you two smirking goons know, and you know what I was told? DO YOU KNOW WHAT I WAS TOLD?

Ron and Zooey, over each other: Nope. No. Nope.

Stephen: I was told, and I quote: “You’re fired. Call-in lines are flooded with support for our newfound approach to honest dog show reporting.” Fired!

Zooey: Goes to show that sex sells, good or bad, two legs or four… and in this case it’s four and honey it’s good, good, and more good yet again.

Ron: Right, then – back to the show, Zooey, now that the virgin man-child is gone. Meanwhile we’ve had enter the ring a legend in her own right, the Husky bitch. Now I know all eyes are on a certain lady-part of hers famous for its deep, dark, glistening black color – but we all know she’s so much more than that, though who could pretend they don’t notice such a showpiece of a piece. Coat befitting the northern princess she most assuredly is, she’s also a lover widely rumored to be…

(broadcast fades out at this point)


The Safety Dance, revisited, featuring “Steve”

(Transcript to follow)


Secret Zoo – Rin Tin Tin


(Late 1920’s)

Radio Announcer: Rin Tin Tin, the Wonder Dog that stole the nation’s heart, the shining star that saved Warner Brothers from bankruptcy time and time again, the stud dog of every lady’s dreams, now spends his retirement at his private beach house in Malibu. Our reporters caught up with Rinty this weekend as he lounged nude on his porch in all his glory, watching the waves crash against the sandy shore.

Reporter: Rinty, do you have time for a quick interview?

Rinty: Certainly, anything for my fans.

Reporter: How’s life been treating you since you retired from the silver screen?

Rinty: Oh, can’t complain. Things are quiet, peaceful, easy. Couldn’t ask for much more than that.

Reporter: Certainly a change from your Hollywood lifestyle just a couple of years ago. You were quite the playboy in your prime. Beautiful GSDs lining up for blocks just to get a whiff of your scent, your on-again-off-again affairs with Hollywood starlets, including your gorgeous co-star Nanette.

Rinty: (chuckles) I’ve tied the knot a few times, there’s no doubt about that. I’ve lived a charmed life, and I’d be lying if I said I didn’t enjoy every minute of it.

Reporter: In the beginning, people compared you to you predecessor, Strongheart, a glorious canine specimen in his own right. What’s it feel like to have ended your career with reviewers asking, “Strongheart who?”

Rinty: Golly, Strongheart really set the stage for screen actors like me. It’s hard to imagine I’d be anything I am today without him setting the precedent. Lee was always insistent I was star material, though.

Reporter: Lee is your agent?

Rinty: You could say that.

Reporter: Ah, Lee introduced you to the Hollywood lifestyle. How did that come about?

Rinty: Well, you know, Lee saw ol’ Strongheart up on the screen and he said to me, “Rinty, you could run circles around that big lunk.” We’d wander up and down Poverty Row, with some of the smaller studios, and those were my first gigs. But the real break was “Where the North Begins.” Lee wrote it himself and pitched it to Harry —

Reporter: That’s Harry Warner, of Warner Bros. Studios, yes?
Rinty: Right. Harry loved the script, and the rest is history.

Reporter: Your journey from pauper to prince of Hollywood is certainly a riveting one.

Rinty: Lee may have exaggerated a few of the details.

Reporter: Ha, well, perhaps, and yet you truly commanded the screen in heroic fashion. Stunning, really.

Rinty: Well, thank you. I had a good time doing it!

Reporter: I can’t help but notice you still present a striking figure, just dashing for a hound your age. Are you still fending off all the ladies?

Rinty: (chuckles) Oh, I have no doubt if I walked back down Sunset Boulevard I’d have a date for the night in a heartbeat. But you know, I’m content now. Settled down with someone I really love, and I don’t think I’d have it any other way.

Reporter: Say, now, that IS news! Who’s the fortunate four-legged female who captured the heart that captured the American spirit?

Rinty:(hesitates audibly)

Reporter: (slowly) Perhaps, it’s a lucky male?

Rinty: (chuckles softly) Well, you could always ask him yourself. Lee loves to give interviews. He’ll be back to the beach house shortly.

Reporter: Hold the phone, you mean your agent? A two legger?

Rinty: I do.

Reporter: But Rinty, you’re a star! You could have anybody! Women fawn over you! Men want to BE you! Why would you settle for a two-legger when you could have anything you want?
Rinty: You know, Lee’s been a constant in my life. He helped me show the world what he’s always seen in me. He was always my advocate, my supporter, my foundation. Coming home has always meant falling asleep at Lee’s side. Don’t get me wrong. The sex is great, and I’ve never been one to turn down an upturned tail, but all these guys and gals, they want me because I’m famous. Lee knows my truest soul like nobody else, and he sees something deeper that he’s fallen for. It’s always been the two of us. Nothing changed when the fame came. And now all I want to do is spend the rest of my days with the man I love.

Reporter: Come to think of it, your agent was divorced a few years back from another Hollywood elite. Is that because…?

Rinty: (sighs sorrowfully) You know, I loved Charlotte, and it pains me to know that she’s had to suffer because of our love. I’ll never truly understand it, but society places these expectations on two-leggers, and sometimes they go through the motions because they’re expected to. Go to war, get married to a fine woman, have kids… Only, sometimes that gets in the way of what they already know is true, and other people get hurt because they couldn’t be honest with themselves from the beginning. I just hate that a third person had to be harmed for us to be together. I truly, sincerely feel terrible for her, because knowing the Lee that I know, I’d be devastated to have a man like that taken from me.

Reporter: It’s certainly a different side of the Rin Tin Tin America knows and loves. The playboy, the sex symbol, the leading man heart throb, and now a romantic at heart.

Rinty: I’ve always been a romantic. Hollywood can blind you to what’s really important in life, but nothing’s ever been more important to me than Lee.

Reporter: Wow, what an interview. Thank you, Rinty, for this eye-opening and heartfelt conversation.

Rinty: Always a pleasure. And, hey, don’t think I didn’t notice where your eyes were for half the interview. I don’t mind if you wanna —

(the interview cuts off)

Announcer: Don’t touch that dial, folks! Ask Zooey is up next, right after this!


Fur and Loving in Alaska


Hunter S. Thompson: We were somewhere north of Fairbanks, near the edge of a sled trail, when his knot began to take hold. I remember feeling a bit light-headed and saying to my lead dog, “Whoa there big fella, take it easy now! My dog, you’ve got some drive!”

Suddenly, there was a wonderful roar of fluids pulsing inside my ass, and my voice began screaming, “Holy Jesus, I love the cock of this fine animal!” There was a heavy panting from above, and strings of warm drool rained down on the back of my neck. The snow beneath us began to melt, whist the northern lights danced above in fantastic iridescent cascades as we continued to–

Ohh… whoops… wait a minute, this is private my journal! Uhh, sorry folks, thats a story for later!


Ask Zooey


Zooey: Welcome back to Ask Zooey, the only place on the internet for premium cross-species dating advice! I’m your gorgeous host who you love the most, Zooey!

Toggle: And I’m a horny rat slut called Toggle!

Zooey: Remember folks, you can contact us with your own zooey questions, either through twitter @AskZooey, or through the anonymous contact form at If it’s a question that’s burning in your heart, asking it could help someone else out there just like you! While we get lots of e-mails every week, we do take the time to read each and every one. Just because we haven’t responded yet doesn’t mean we won’t soon!

Toggle: Let’s not waste any more time and dive right in! Our first question comes from a Traveler on the Tundra!

Zooey: Ah, a teamster from up north, perhaps?

Toggle: The Traveler writes: “Dear Zooey: I hear about there being a community of zooey individuals, but i have never had luck finding anyone else to talk to about it. I’m not good at online interactions because i watched one too many 20/20 specials growing up and developed a rather paranoid mentality about online interactions. In addition, I travel for work 90% of the time and find it difficult to make lasting relationships with any species because of my travels. Any advice for the weary traveler on how to make lasting connections, human or otherwise?”

Zooey: Ahh, those classic 20/20 specials on the dangers of online activity.

Toggle: The online landscape has changed a lot from when I was growing up. I remember when the idea of using your real name on the internet was seen as an unnecessary risk, and now it’s required to use certain websites.

Zooey: And while there are certainly some valid concerns about being online and public with one’s persona, those old programs like Dateline and 20/20 definitely tended to blow things a little out of proportion, largely do to a fundamental lack of understanding of online interactions and a need to sensationalize fear.

Toggle: The tough thing about the zoo community is that, in this particular era of zoo history, it’s largely online. The good news is that you can foster relationships with people based on common interests without needing to divulge personal information. The furry fandom is definitely a shining example of healthy online interactions by way of an online persona.

Zooey: Indeed. Here, all you need to know is that my name is Zooey, and I’m the most gorgeous great dane drag queen you’ll ever meet, and we can have a perfectly good conversation from that alone. No need to know my zipcode, where I went to school, or what my day job is.

Toggle: Furries also have a built-in social convention for meeting people in real life, in safe, public spaces that also don’t require one to divulge personal information: fur cons. Incidentally, Traveler, these are also places to meet zoos in safe encounters, since there is significant community overlap! Plus, there’s a con in any given part of the world you may be traveling in at any given time, particularly if you venture down into the US.

Zooey: Remember, Traveler, when talking to people online, it is perfectly acceptable to say, “I’m not comfortable sharing that information about myself at this time.”

Toggle: Preferably in less stilted phrasing, but yes. You mentioned behind the scenes that you fear people won’t feel comfortable getting to know you if you never divulge personal information. Now, I wonder about the degree to which you don’t share information. If it’s a matter of not wanting to answer the age-old question of “A/S/L?” then you’ll find that you’re not expected to. If it’s a matter of being afraid of sharing your favorite movies and video games for fear that someone might figure out who you are based on your likes, then yes, this is totally paranoia, and you’re going to have a hard time fostering conversations in which you’re unwilling to give even an iota of yourself. Break out of your shell, Traveler, because all relationships require that we give something of ourselves to the relationship.

Zooey: Now, this is a cross-species dating advice show, so let’s not neglect the other glaring question. Traveling ninety percent of the time does make it largely impractical to form lasting relationships with animal partners of various species, but this also depends on the terms of your travel.

Toggle: I have a really good friend who travels for work constantly. Since he travels by personal car, he has a canine companion that travels with him. This does require stops at dog parks along the way for plenty of exercise, but it also means his partner is by his side all the time. This necessitates teaching your partner the etiquette of being around crowds of people and living in hotel rooms. It also means that he’s chosen to give up the convenience of airplanes to travel by car.

Zooey: Another friend of mine spent time as a teamster, on the road in a big sleeper cab. Canines seem to be the paramours of choice for traveling zoos, but again, it takes a certain kind of pooch that doesn’t mind hanging out in a spacious sleeper cab all day, and again, it means you’ll be taking frequent stops for exercise, which could interfere with how fast you make it from point A to point B.

Toggle: A growing number of traveling zoos are bringing their homes with them, opting to travel by camper, which opens up a lot of options for you and your traveling companion. This can be a more expensive option on the outset, because of upfront costs and gas, but consider that you also don’t have to pay for a mortgage on a house!

Zooey: The truth, though, is that traveling zoos don’t really have options to form lasting relationships with horses, for instance, who require a stable to call home and a lot of time and care on site. Other animals about the farm are also out, in terms of long lasting relationships. So if you’re not particularly attracted to canines, or if you fancy breeds that require lots of space and exercise, you may be out of luck until you’re able to settle down. Also, if you travel largely by plane, that can complicate things, as traveling by plane is NOT currently a practical life style for our four-legged friends.

Toggle: Traveling zoos have to remember that their partners’ wellbeing always comes first, and that means making sure your lifestyle is able to accommodate a four-legged partner’s needs. But rest assured, Traveler, you CAN have a meaningful, mutually beneficial relationship while living on the road.

Zooey: Thanks for reaching out. Safe travels, Traveler, and we hope you’re able to begin making the zooey connections you need to make! Our next letter comes from Oral Lover in Orange County. Oral writes, “Dear Zooey: My father taught me that, when it comes to the Birds and the Bees, it’s my duty before I get off to make my partner cum first. Bet he would have a heart attack knowing that I use that advice on my female animal partners. I truly believe that he was right in this regard, though, as I find it very exciting to see my partner hit orgasm before I ever even penetrate. But I’m having a problem that I hope you can help me with. For years, my partner was a sexy goat that I knew just how to hit all the right spots, with my fingers and tongue. Now my partner is a lovely mix breed bitch. I try doing the same things orally that I did with my last partner but it just doesn’t seam to be working. I truly wish to please her orally, I just don’t know what I’m doing wrong. Is this a common problem with zoos that change species? Please help!”

Toggle: I love a man that puts his partner first in bed.

Zooey: Rawr, me, too! Your father definitely taught you well.

Toggle: Here’s the thing, though, Oral: regardless of whether or not you change species, every woman is different, and they like different things. There’s no “one size fits all” when it comes to oral, which makes this question a little difficult to address. Nevertheless, we reached out to our oral experts for advice, and hopefully this will be of use to you.

Zooey: It’s true that every woman is different, but it’s definitely true, Oral, that a goat and a bitch aren’t quite anatomically set up the same way. A canine’s clitoris isn’t in the same place, so if you’re aiming for the same spots, you’re likely going to miss it.

Toggle: A little foreplay goes a long way. With your partner standing, and with her consent, try gently squeezing her vulva by encircling it with your thumb and forefinger: thumb on top, forefinger bent and encircling the underside. You should feel her clit get hard, and she may hump your hand to encourage you to continue forward.

Zooey: Our experts recommend that smooching your pooch is easier with her lying on her back. Gently suck on her clit between your lips like a straw, then lick its underside. If she bucks her hips against your face or begins licking her chops, you’re hitting the right spot.

Toggle: We stress this every time, but it’s worth stressing again: LISTEN to your partner, and remember that at any time, consent can be withdrawn. Furthermore, close attention to your partner’s body language will help you gauge when you’re hitting the exact right spot, or whether you need to move just a liiiiittle to the left, or just a hair to the right. Again, no two dogs have exactly the same spot, so knowing exactly where your fingers need to go or where to focus your tongue isn’t an exact science. Compared to a goat, though, you generally don’t need to reach too far to find a canine’s g-spot. She will definitely guide you, so pay attention! And for the love of Dog, please mind your nails!

Zooey: Clearly, Oral, you’re experienced in knowing when a woman is having the time of her life, or when she’s just not into it. And remember, the other side of the coin is that not everyone likes oral. There’s a chance your bitch just doesn’t get off on it.

Toggle: With any luck, our advice leads to some very ecstatic zoomies in the near future. Though we’ve given you some basic pointers, always listen to your partner, Oral, and you’ll never go wrong.

Zooey: That’s all the time we have for today, folks! Thanks so much for tuning in! We look forward to answering all your zooey relationship questions next episode! Keep those submissions coming!

Toggle: We’ll see you next time on Ask Zooey! Same zoo time, same zoo channel!




Fausty: Thanks, friends, for listening to Zooier Than Thou.

Toggle: Next full moon, we want to talk about women in the community, but we feel wholly inadequate to cover this topic as a bunch of guys and a drag queen. Thankfully, we have a special guest host and some special interview guests joining us to give us the perspective we can’t hope to give ourselves.

Fausty: It’s gonna be well worth the wait, so don’t miss it for anything!

Toggle: You can subscribe to the podcast via our RSS feed: just point your favourite podcast client at and off you go. You can even find us on Spotify, Youtube, Alexa, and the one-who-must-be-named. We’re everywhere!

Fausty: Our podcast’s website is, yep, Twitter @ZooierThanThou, and you can follow Zooey’s knotty advice @AskZooey. Follow Fausty @lecontespink, and Toggle @OneBigGrumpyRat!

Toggle: A reminder that we have a form that enables anonymous submissions to the podcast on our website,! You can share with the world some of your zooey wisdom, Ask Zooey for 10 hot insider tips on hot crumping action with your sexiest drafty boy, or send us death threats from your home IP address… what could possibly go wrong?

Fausty: You can contact co-host Fausty through his website,, or whisper your secret in Mr. PeanutButter’s ear, and maybe he’ll feel compelled to contact me finally!

Toggle: Zooier Than Thou wants to be free, man. Share it with everyone! Peace, love, and podcasts!

Fausty: All nonhumans involved in the production of this episode have been certified 100% free of performance anxiety!

Toggle: Did you know that crumping is a thing? I didn’t!

Fausty: I know what crumping is, and I’m really, really good at it! Be nice to each other. It’s the sexiest, zooiest thing you can do. This is old man Fausty, and I’m sitting here randy as a 16 year old thinking about crumping.

Toggle: And this is Toggle, and I know what I’m doing for the next half hour, and you’ve almost finished listening to Zooier Than Thou! Stay Defiant, fellow zoos! We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon!

Share This:




Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guest Host: Kyon

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Inspired,” “Long Stroll,” “Bossa Antigua,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,”  
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Transcript to follow!


  1. Intro
  2. An Important Statement
  3. Zooey E-mails
  4. The Safety Dance
  5. Outro
Share This:




Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Lobby Time,” “Airport Lounge,” “Gymnopedie No.1,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,” “Variety Show Segment Intro Tv Music,” “Afternoon Talk Show Tv Theme Music,”  
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 



(The Zooier Than Thou podcast contains mature content and language, and may not be appropriate for younger audiences. Thanks for understanding.)

Fausty: Greetings, my friends and fellow zoos, and welcome to another uplifting episode of the zooiest of zooey podcasts, Zooier Than Thou. I’m Fausty, a grey-muzzle zoo adding my oldster perspectives to the podcast…

Toggle: And this is Toggle. Don’t mind me, I’m just cloud-surfing behind this plane like Kit Cloudkicker.

Fausty: We have the honor of serving as your co-hosts for this episode of Zooier Than Thou!

Toggle: I don’t know about you, Fausty, but I’m still feeling that zoo pride high from earlier this month!

Fausty: Indeed, indeed. Speaking of zoo pride, it’s really been something to see how all the other zoo podcasts celebrated. Of particular note, Zoostradamus’s podcast made some very favorable predictions about the health of the zoo community in the coming future. Given their history of making impressively-accurate predictions, let’s hope this one comes true, eh?

Toggle: Radio Dog Lovers went a bit more avant-garde and just played a solid hour of dogs barking over downtempo beats, which was interesting.

Fausty: They’re always one step ahead of the game, if I’m being perfectly honest. We’re nowhere near cool enough to pull off a stunt like that – obviously – though I must say RDL made it work and made it work with their usual panache and fashionable je ne sais quois.

Toggle: Yeah, it was surprisingly listenable.

Fausty: And our colleagues over at the venerable Zootopia podcast…

Toggle: Zoo Utopia. They had to change it, remember?

Fausty: Right, sorry. There’s some blurry bits of the spring months, on account of some of my cancer treatment, and from time to time I lose data points…

Toggle: About Zoo Utopia?

Fausty: Ah, right! So, Zoo Utopia actually covered the Zoo Pride Parade over in Pittsburgh live! I wasn’t able to attend -cancer – though I heard from friends that it was quite the shindig.

Toggle: They actually had a lot more attendees than the Straight Pride parade in Seattle a few years back.

Fausty: That’s actually not saying much. Whatever the case, it was a real treat to listen to the live coverage, realtime.

Toggle: Needless to say, we’re visibly swollen with pride here at Zooier Than Thou, and it seems some of our listeners felt the same! After our episode aired, we got a couple more audio submissions, and so we thought we’d play them for you now!

(Cue Audio Submissions)

“I admit I was a little skeptical at the concept of zoo pride. I guess I thought that it might be some kind of shameless self-promotion. While I’m not really interested in self-promotion, I am shameless. And I think that if the culmination of all this is that zoosexuality becomes ubiquitous and otherwise unremarkable in the context of someone’s whole other life, it’s a really good thing, and I’m happy to be a part of it.”

“For me, zoo pride is beyond just being proud of yourself, or being who you are, being able to stand up to anyone who will judge you for that. It’s also the ability of being proud of the relationships that you can form with animals, the ability to treat them as people.”

Fausty: Speaking personally, I have been deeply touched by many of the listener submissions on the topic of zoo pride. In addition to the wonderful diversity of views on what zoo pride means to each of is, the overall zeitgeist of the community – the pride in our pride, as it were – comes through in each and every one of those submissions. Bravo, fellow zoos!

Toggle: Without further ado, let’s dive into this episode’s late-arriving batch of zoo pride submissions. First up, here’s a zoo pride submission from Our Friendly Neighborhood Zoosexual. Subject: “Hey I think I might be late so if that’s the case sorry and do whatever you like!”

Fausty: What we’d most like to do, Friendly, is share your comments so off we go!

Toggle: Friendly writes: “What does Zoo Pride mean to me?

“For me zoo pride means never having to be ashamed of who I am, that the sexuality that I just happen to have makes me neither hero nor monster, but instead it’s our actions that make us who we actually are. Zoo pride means allowing myself to live to my fullest potential even if there are those who may hate and fear us for existing; the hope that greater things will come; and most important of all, the celebration of all the wonderful nonhuman relationships in my life this far, whether they were platonic or otherwise!

“As for the zoo pride day/week which until just a little while ago, I didn’t even know was even a thing, that is until I started listing to your show (thanks for that BTW) Zoo pride day/week also reminds me that we may have a long ways to go, but its things such as this show where people can hear from zoos who are actually decent people, that’s what bring us a whisker closer.”

Fausty: We certainly hope it’s a hair more than a whisker, Friendly, though we certainly agree that there’s much work yet to be done and many challenges yet in store. Your focus on living to our fullest potential certainly resonates with me, and it’s great to hear that you are also seeing this as a central element of our pride in ourselves.

Toggle: Friendly continues: “Also speaking of your show I think both of your humor is spot on, and poor Toggle totally sounds like he’s got balls, lol!” See, even the listeners know that rat balls are massive and that they drop during times of arousal or dominance.

Fausty: You must not feel very dominant, then, cuz those balls, they haven’t dropped yet. I’m not talking hypothetically, mind you: sitting here, right now, I can see (since, like so many rats for whatever reason, Toggle wears this weird-assed outfit that covers his top half but leaves his boy-parts visible for all the world to see… if he had boy-parts, that is, which I’m not quite sure to be honest. Never seen ‘em, not even once.)

Toggle: Fausty’s just jealous because I don’t have to worry about sitting on my balls all the time.

Fausty: I’m more than happy to work around the management issues involved in having actual testicles, actually, for a whole host of reasons. One of which is, frankly, that it’s a hell of a lot better than sounding like some kind of Mickey Mouse motherfucker.

Toggle: Don’t make me reach over there and rip that Prince Albert right out of your cock!

Fausty: Whoa, hey now! No need for violence! Someday perhaps you’ll manifest balls, and then you’ll understand what you’ve been missing thus far. Patience, patience…

Toggle: Haha, one of these days, you’ll see. You’ll wake up and think, “These aren’t my glasses.”

Fausty: The elk does that even mean?

Toggle: Don’t worry, there’s a furry out there laughing right now, and that’s good enough for me.

Fausty: Oh heavens – furry in-jokes… I shouldn’t be surprised! Do you have more to share from that letter, Mr. Rat?

Toggle: Ah, yes, it concludes: “Thank you for putting on this show! I know right now it’s just a grain of sand on a whole beach of other more main stream zoo podcasts but I think your day will come!”

Fausty: We like to think that, on the great beach that is the universe of zoo podcasts, Zooier Than Thou is a beautiful little shell: sure, we’re on the fringe, but our fringe existence is 100% pure fabulous!

Toggle: Thanks so much, Friendly Neighborhood Zoosexual! Stay proud, and Stay defiant!

Fausty: Who’s next, Toggle?

Toggle: That would be this heartwarming letter from Canis Gnosis, who wants to say Thank You! Canis writes: “Howdy there, fellow zoos!

Firstly, I’d like to say thank you from the bottom of my heart.

“Between the fragmentation and disillusionment of our community, the constant witch-hunts, and having lost my canine partner some years back, my own mental health (much less any sense of pride in myself) had been worn down to the quick. About two weeks ago (as of this writing) some anti-zoo shit-storming over on Twitter had done a number on my state of mind, pushing me to seek out something–anything–zoo-related and positive left on the internet… And that’s when I stumbled across Zooier Than Thou.

“I cannot fully put into words the difference I feel now. Not only is you guys’ podcast positive, it’s optimistic! Let’s just say that ZooTT and I are on the same page when it comes to opinions on morality, visibility, and zoophilia’s place in the world. I haven’t felt anywhere this much pride in who I am or my community in a very long time. A long-lasting bout of depression I had been struggling with has broken, and my spirits are as high now as when I first joined the online zeta community almost twenty years ago.

“Zooier Than Thou has got me seriously thinking on ways I can help out with the cause of zoosexual rights and positive visibility. I’ve already circulated the tapes–as it were–to all my zooey and zooish friends online who seemed just as hungry for this kind of content as I was. There are a plethora of zetas within both the Furry and Other-kin communities, either closeted, self-hating or just with their head’s down, who desperately need to hear a self-affirming, pro-zoosexual voice. They just need to hear it.

“It’s amazing what a little pride, and hope for the future can do for someone. Thank you again <3”

Fausty: Toggle and I were talking about the podcast recently, in the context of my health challenges (which is to say, cancer), and I can say that the work we’ve done on the podcast since its launch earlier this year has been a high point for me on so many levels. It’s been an honor to be part of this project, More, it’s reinforced for me the value of positive, forward-looking approaches to community questions and that’s helped me through some tough times, like dealing with chemo-related ugliness during the past few months. Knowing that our work, in turn, helps others is just the sort of virtuous feedback loop we all hope to be part of.

Toggle: When I first read this letter, it made me feel so happy I just had to share it on Twitter. Every now and then, we get messages like these that affirm that we’re doing the right thing by putting together this podcast. I’ve never worked on anything that gave me such a sense of goodness and purpose like Zooier Than Thou. If we make the life of even one animal or one zoo better, then every moment we pour into this is worth it. Hearing this sort of thing gives me strength to persevere. Thanks, Canis Gnosis. You really did make my day with your e-mail. I’m so glad that we could have a positive impact on your life.

Fausty: We had a few more e-mails come our way, but we’re gonna hold onto them until the New Moon episode for now. Even if we haven’t responded yet, we do read every e-mail that comes across our desk, and we do respect when messages are marked as private, so don’t hesitate to send your thoughts along. Even though it’s a wonderful problem to have, by now we could easily fill each episode with nothing but submissions from listeners – and there’s more to share than just these wonderful messages, so we’ll keep doing our best to highlight those that resonate most strongly.

Toggle: Alright, Fausty, what’s today’s primary focus?

Fausty: This episode, we’re exploring the various ways in which today’s zoos have chosen to build our lives – and in doing so we’ve been reminded of just how diverse, creative, and flexible zoos are when it comes to structuring our life paths and integrating our zooish identities with the rest of our most important attributes. There’s no one right way to “be zoo” – indeed, take 100 zoos and we’ll have 100 different and complimentary ways of being zoos. Whilst there’s some things about us that do bind us together into a community – our respect for our nonhuman peers, or empathy, our ability to build deep relationships beyond the confines of human existence – those commonalities exist alongside the wondrous diversity of zooish experiences and zooish living arrangements. This episode, we turn our focus to that diversity and to the wisdom to be found in learning from how others have crafted their own zoo lives.

Toggle: Coming up next, a word from our sponsors, then an interview with a zoo-exclusive zoo, Yankee Doodle Donkey!

Fausty: Don’t change that dial… err, these newfangled podcast-y things don’t have dials, do they? Anyhow don’t change the controls of your podcast player, and we’ll be right back with more zooey good times.

This week’s sponsors

Announcer: This week’s episode is brought to you by:

ZooVille. It’s like WhoVille, but for zoos. We know you’re just here for the articles.

And also by:

Zed’s Zooey Bed and Breakfast: Sí, hablamos español! No estoy en la oficina en este momento. Envianos cualquier trabajo para traducirlo.

And finally:

Zooier Than Thou is brought to you by the letter P. Because who doesn’t like P? Besides, Z won’t return our calls.

Secret Zoo – Alexander the Great

(The scene is set in an army camp at meal time)

Toggle Soldier: Hey, this seat taken?

Soldier 1: Naw, have a seat. You must be new ‘round here.

Toggle Soldier: Heh, yeah. Thanks.

Soldier 2: My, they’re sure conscripting soldiers younger and younger these days. Pretty sure this kids balls haven’t even dropped.

Toggle Soldier: Hey! I’m old enough to kick your ass!

Soldier 1: Relax, kid, he’s just teasin’ ya. Sit down, have a bite to eat. We’ve got a long way to go tomorrow.

Toggle: Hey, so, ya’ll have been here for a while, right?

Soldier 2: You could say that. Seen countless battles, and still not dead yet.

Toggle: So, what’s the deal with the king?

Soldier 1: Ha, you’re gonna have to be more specific, kid. King Alexander has a number of… charming eccentricities, shall we say.

Toggle: I just noticed, he… seems to have a way with horses. Or, a specific horse, really. And a pretty specific way!

Soldier 2: You mean his boyfriend Bucephalus?

Toggle: B-boyfriend?

Soldier 1: Oh, yeah, those two are a total power couple. Practically inseparable. Nothing quite like the bond between a Macedonian man and his horse. But they’re on a whole ‘nother level.

Toggle: Yeah, I couldn’t help but notice the way they… interact with one another. Hand-in-glove, you might say…

Soldier 2: Kid, you don’t know the half of it.

Soldier 1: They say old Bucephalus was completely untamable. He’s a beauty of a fella, though, ain’t he? But when the merchant brought him to King Philip, no one could tame that handsome, big brute. Philip was going to turn the merchant away, but the stallion caught our Prince Alexander’s eye, and he proposed that if he could tame the horse, his father must purchase him at once.

Toggle: Yikes, King Alexander does seem to have quite an intimidating presence. I imagine he completely dominated the big beast.

Solder 2: Hardly. He was only 10 years old.

Toggle: Really? How did he dominate such a powerful horse, then?

Soldier 1: He stood and observed him quietly, and then noticed that the horse was particularly sensitive to moving shadows. So, when Prince Alex approached Bucephalus, he did so aware of the play of shadows and how those shadows would appear to the skittish horse. Just like that, Alex was able to earn Bucephalus’ trust and from there he was riding the stallion shortly thereafter.

Toggle: Wow, that seems so simple.

Soldier 1: Simple if you speak horse, maybe. All the other men tried to force their will on the stallion, but Alex alone thought to listen to the animal and work with him on his terms. Pretty impressive for a 10 year old kid.

Soldier 2: Now they’re butt buddies. Only, it’s hard to tell who’s on top, since both of them are such dominant assholes.

Toggle: You really think so?

Soldier 1: Kid, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but King Alexander fucks just about anyone who catches his eye, man or woman. You really think it’s so farfetched that he’s fuckin’ his horse – or the other way, or both at once, who knows!

Toggle: Wow, I guess… that’s not so farfetched. I’ve certainly never seen a horse so devoted to a man before like that.

Soldier 2: Or a man so entirely devoted to a horse.

Soldier 1: Oh, man, kid, you weren’t here when his horse got kidnapped.

Toggle: Kidnapped?

Soldier 1: Oh, yeah, so get this. As King Alex moved us forward on a campaign, Bucephalus was entrusted to staff so as to give him a rest from his duties as a battle steed. Coming up behind the front lines, the group that was caring for Bucephalus was beset by mountain bandits lookin’ to score some treasure. Once they realized that they had actually captured King Alex’s beloved stallion, they immediately let it be known that they would return the horse to Alex upon payment of a ransom.

Toggle: Oh dear, I can’t imagine that went well for them.

Soldier 2: About as well as it could go. Most generals wouldn’t have thought twice about a horse. Lose a horse, get another one.

Soldier 1: But not King Alex and his Bucephalus. Oh, the king was fuckin’ furious! It wasn’t a matter of pride or ego, neither. He was just worried sick about the safety of his horse boyfriend. So the king laid it out for them: unless Bucephalus was returned to him, safe and sound, immediately Alexander would personally lead his army into the mountains, where he would kill every man, woman, and child of the hill tribes responsible for abducting his beloved – no exceptions, no mercy.

Toggle: Holy shit!

Soldier 2: And you know he’d do it, too. Over a fucking horse, no less… a fucking horse who fucks like only a horse can fuck, right?

Soldier 1: Well, these guys were so spooked by his threats that they brought Bucephalus back to King Alexander immediately.

Toggle: Wow, I imagined he killed the shit out of them.

Soldier 2: You’d think. No, he treated them with honour, and he actually paid their fucking ransom. Just so happy to have his boyfriend back. Imagine the great King Alexander, with his white-hot, bloodthirsty fury, feeling so damned relieved that instead of offing them, he showed mercy and gratitude.

Toggle: That’s… actually pretty strange.

Soldier 1: Not when you consider how much he fuckin’ loves that horse. I’m tellin’ ya, kid. Those two are a total power couple.

Toggle: So, everyone’s just… OK with the king ummm… dating a horse?

Soldier 2: Are you going to go up to the great King Alexander the conquerer and tell him that fucking a horse grosses you out?

Toggle: Gosh, I guess not.

Soldier 1: It’s not really a big deal. He’s conquering the world in the name of Macedonia. No one really cares who he fucks. And he’s fuckin’ everyone out here. He likes him his handsome young men, too, so watch yourself, kid.

Toggle: (blushes) Oh, well, you know, I don’t mind so much about that. I guess I don’t really care about the horse, either. I just thought it was kind of strange and remarkable.

Solder 2: If you don’t eat your food, someone else is gonna eat it for you.

Soldier 1: Yeah, less talk, more chow. We’ve got a lot to do tomorrow, and you’re gonna need everything you have. You ain’t got no big brave stallion standing behind you, ready to save your ass when it’s needed, and service it when you’re needy, so you best get your shit together like the rest of us mere mortals and stop daydreaming about King Alex and Bucephalus and what they’re probably doing right this very moment in the general’s camp.

Toggle: O-oh, uh, yes, sir!

Interview with Doodle Donkey

(transcript to follow)

Ask Zooey

Zooey Welcome back to another, exotic, erotic, egregious episode of Ask Zooey, the go-to cross-species sex advice show for the zoo’s who & even a few others, to boot! I’m your Great Dane with a great mane – yes, ladies, these locks are real! – Zooey!

Toggle: And I’m the rat whose googles joggle when he’s boggled, Toggle!

Zooey: We’re so excited that you’re back for our fifth episode working with Zooier Than Thou! After the last episode, we got a flood of human submissions that we’re really excited to tackle! Remember, folks, you can send submissions through the form at, or – if you swing that way – contact us through our twitter account @AskZooey, that’s A-S-K-Z-O-O-E-Y.

Toggle: That poor account seems a little neglected, Zooey.

Zooey: Honey, it’s all about keeping atop what comes first and twitter serves me, not the other way around. Well ok… I’ll own up to being a bit less than obsessed with twitter-tastic efforts at outreach and I know we can do better. So let me encourage everyone to send in even your simplest questions on twitter – I’ll find time in the day’s adventures to share a thought or two when it counts.

Toggle: Alright, up first, we have a big question from Unsure in the UK.

Zooey: I do so love a British accent, so honey, before we go one step further, you feel free to call me any-time, mmm?

Toggle: Unsure writes, “My boyfriend and I have a very comfortable relationship. We’ve been dating for a number of years, and as much as I love taking his massive, canine cock, sometimes I want to be on top, but I’m not sure how to approach this question with him, to make sure it’s something he’s comfortable with. Beyond that, I’m also not sure how to even go about it if he says yes. In short, Zooey, I wonder if you could explain how to have mutually enjoyable, consensual anal sex with my beloved companion.”

Zooey: What a question. I think it’s safe to say this question is on a lot of people’s minds. Safe, consensual, and mutually enjoyable are definitely the key words – as always! Pushing a bit deeper into the subject, handsome, let’s take a closer look at some of the brass-tacks details.

Toggle: Before we get into the tacks, brass or otherwise, let’s step back and remind ourselves off the bat is that sex – all forms of intimacy, including sex – requires trust, and listening, and understanding, and care. As to the tacks in question, here’s where things get specific: it’s a simple, sexy fact that not everyone – of whatever species – is going to be interested in anal sex. Straight-up, it goes without saying (though we’re saying it, just to be triple-clear) that respecting those boundaries is absolutely the first and second and third inviolate rule when it comes to such matters. No exceptions, no hesitation, no prevarication: no means no, and that’s an answer that isn’t subject to debate.

Zooey: First, second, third, AND fourth – that rule rules the roost, just as dear little Toggle says in that sexy squeaky voice of his! That bottom-level basic premise set solidly in stone, let’s get into some of those sharp brass points of truth, when it comes to things related to bottoms… it should come as no surprise to you, if you’re a gay man, that making sure things are clean is a must. However, no douching. A simple walk in the park should really do the trick. And another no-brainer as a male familiar with anal sex, you’re going to want to use lots of lube. Our experts don’t recommend condoms, simply because they can be a little uncomfortable for the receptive party, but if you feel condoms are necessary, more lube is necessitated as well.

Toggle: If you plan to play with fingers, mind your nails and claws, folks. Personally, as a rat, I don’t like fingers in my butt for precisely this reason. Your partner’s rumps are soft and sensitive, so it’s incredibly important to be mindful of your callouses and nails.

Zooey: Actual entry requires gentle coaxing – after she or he has let you know in no uncertain terms that it’s a green-light to sink a bit deeper into the topic. Your partner does need to be relaxed, which, again, as a male who’s had things stroked passionately into his all-but-begging butt, you should be aware of. Orgasms are actually great for this — an orgasming boy of any species naturally clenches and relaxes his sphincter rhythmically. Timing is very important for this technique of entry, but it’s almost inevitable that you’ll be able to slide in. This technique works with the ladies, as well, so long as she’s relaxed enough and she’s not so full of spunk that she ends up wiggling away from things in her ecstasy.

Toggle: Apart from catching things mid-orgasm, if you help your booty-begging boy to relax, and you’re very gentle and persistent and generous with the lube, you can apply a little bit of pressure to help him ease onto your cock. Slow and steady, and remember to pay attention to your partner. As always, even if he or she has said yes to entering, they can change their mind at any time: you, it goes without saying but we’re saying it anyway just to be triple-sure, will always and forever respect that.

Zooey: Oh honey… this really is an activity that requires trust, and you can very well lose that trust if you don’t absolutely and immediately respect your partner’s desires. One of our experts confessed that in a moment of heated passion, they lost that trust with their partner permanently, even after years of mutually enjoyable penetrative sex. It only takes one moment, so consider this when you and your partner are deciding what sexual activities work best for your relationship. Is the potential orgasm worth the risk of losing a deep trusting bond you’ve fostered over years of your relationship? Not everything’s about sticking that thing someplace and moving about until things get sticky: there’s so much more, and so much on the line when you take trust in your hands… or in other parts of your anatomy, in shared pleasures like this.

Toggle: Always, always, always! listen to your partner; not just their voice, but their entire body, at all times. Some partners – mostly of the two-legged persuasion – may have a cultural taboo when it comes to the concept of “anal sex” – but that’s not universal amoungst everyone, and it’s certainly not as common when we move outside the tight bubble of human expectations. For lots of folks, what’s first and foremost is finding and sharing intimate physical activities that bring loving partners closer to each other: physically, yes, and also emotionally and spiritually. For the more… open-minded of our peers – however many legs they may have carrying them along the path of life – the measure of what’s a welcome addition to sex is whether it’s good for everyone involved: feels good, and also feels safe and closeness-encouraging for catchers & pitchers alike. Don’t assume that, just because some humans think “anal sex” is some big taboo that exists merely to be transgressed or challenged, somehow everyone feels that way! Not at all, not at all – that depends on your partner, and to answer that question you must be good at listening and respecting what they are saying, however they choose to say it!

Zooey: That was a fantastic question, Unsure. I hope this helps you and your partner decide what’s best for you! It’s really no different from any other sort of sexy good fun shared between the two of you: respect and consideration and listening and caring aren’t unique to anal sex, or to any kind of sex… or hell to sex at all! Stick with those basics, and wherever you two frisky folks are thinking about sticking things, you’ll cum out the other end with smiles all around! And, with that, here’s our next question from Is She Interested in Indiana: “Dear Zooey: I volunteer at a place with an absolutely gorgeous mule. I have a huge crush on her, but she sends me mixed signals. Sometimes, she’ll just ignore me when I groom or pet her, but other times she will go right up to my chest and nuzzle me. Also, whenever I walk her back to the paddock, she’ll pee while looking back at me, and then wink while she walks away. Do you think she wants to be more than just co-workers?”

Toggle: Oh, boy, this right here is a classic love story in the making!

Zooey: For those listening at home, we cheerfully confirm that, noooope, winking has nothing to do with batting an eyelash in a four-hooved lady like this.

Toggle: So the big question: Is she interested? Mules in general tend to have a certain inbuilt proclivity to gravitate towards humans, whether the interest is Platonic or perhaps a bit more. From what you’ve told us in your note, Unsure, we both think it’s clear that she likes you: after all, she’s quite clearly showing you affection. The real question is whether or not your more-than-Platonic turn of thought is to go requited or not. As to that, wooing her is quite simple: no more and no less, it’s all about sharing with her your extra time. Spend a little longer grooming her. Show her that you care. And most importantly, show her your intent. She may be ignoring you when you groom her because you haven’t been stallion enough to let her know you’re interested. Though, I have to wonder if you haven’t already made your move, since she’s giving you a wink. She’s talking, you’re listening… that’s always the right place to start!

Zooey: For those of you who are equine-illiterate, an amorous mare – whether horse or mule – will flex her vulva for potential suitors when she’s feeling the heat (whether in actual estrus or simply happy to receive carnal attentions at that point in time). This is called winking.

Toggle: When spending time together, pay attention to how she reacts to you. If she’s comfortable with you being near her hindquarters, and she’s raising her tail for you, those generally are ways for her to let you know that she sees you as a potential mate. If she pulls away or shows signs of discomfort at your advances, sorry big boy but – for now – you’re barking up the no-tree of polite refusal. Mules are proud, intelligent, and willful. She will absolutely let you know her intentions: basically, if and when things have moved a bit further and you show her yours, don’t be surprised when she shows you whether things are all-ahead-go or nope-not-now-fella.

Zooey: Thanks so much for showing us that you’re Interested. In our humble opinions, it does sound like your crush is likely already returned in kind by that big girl, and we wish you the best of luck if the two of you decide to go ahead and take that relationship to the next level! A wink like that is nothing to scoff at… oh no, not even a hint of a scoff.

Toggle: Our last question for the evening comes from I’ll Be In the Lab in Livermore. In the Lab writes: “Dear Zooey: My aunt has a beautiful chocolate lab who I’ve been taking care of since we were both just wee young pups. As we grew up together, our love blossomed deeper and deeper, and eventually, we took things to the next level. She’s truly amazing, and our sex together is just so spectacularly, consistently mutually satisfying. Despite all that, I find myself wracked with guilt after each encounter, since – well, in raw words, she belongs to my aunt. For all the usual reasons, I haven’t told my aunt about our secret trysts, since basically I worry she wouldn’t approve even though I don’t really know or not. My girl and I are madly in love, everything about our time together is just so great for both of us, but… should I really keep our relationship going, or should I put an end to it since she belongs to another?”

Zooey: With this question, In the Lab has oh-so-gently stroked a very hot-button issue in the zoo community. Right upfront, all of us here feel like we know the answer we’re supposed to give, buuuuut… after talking about it with all the zoos on staff ‘round here, we feel this question calls on us to dive a bit deeper, try a bit harder, expect more than the standard “wham, bam, thank you ma’am” kind of reply.

Toggle: First off, I am going to say that it’s very hard – pretty much impossible, if we’re going to stay honest and stay legit – for any of us at Ask Zooey, heck even anyone at Zooier Than Thou, to get up on our high horse (up on, not up in… geez!) and preach hypocritically that someone can only be in a relationship with someone four-legged whom they legally “own.” My first zooey experiences were with a relative’s dog – nobody I owned, at the time or at any time thereafter. Straight-up clandestine rendezvous-level shit, yep. Fausty and Kyon both had their sexual awakening with a neighbor’s dog – and they’ve both been upfront and honest about that in public for ages, and stood by those honest recollections. Not only are we not an unusual sample from amoungst zoos out there, but really we’re about as typical as the typical zoo gets in that regard; those who came of age with someone they “owned” are in a very small minority of zoos out there, and that’s simply empirical fact – no judgment, no ethical conclusion, just a fact to set the stage. As such, courting animals that don’t “belong” to us is absolutely a very typical – perhaps the single-most typical – part of coming of age physically and personally as a zoo. Sooo, I think that when we get into this semantic space, we’re reckoning with two very different judgment-deriving systems that are in such situations nearly always at odds with one another: on the one paw, we’ve got the zooey morality which recognizes animals as autonomous individuals with the right to choose their own partners for their own reasons on their own terms with no role for a slave-style “owner” stepping in to decide who gets to lick or mount whom and when. And then, on the other paw we’ve got the mundane legal system of judgment that governs animals as no more and no less than pure personal property. When it comes to zoos and the vagaries of youthful zoo “dating,” those two systems are rarely going to agree on what’s right and what’s not. Again, that’s a simple fact and it’s a good thing to set out upfront.

Zooey: Right, all that said and after we’ve done our work in consulting more than a few of our fellow zoos, we’re all lined up here with the ethical conclusion that there is nothing morally wrong with courting our four-legged friends who are – in legalistic terms – “owned” by another human. Nonhumans, after all, have not only the ability but much more so the inalienable right to make the choice to engage in physical, intimate terms with whomever they wish. Consider, if you will, a system in which humans are regarded as property, for the ease of understanding this conclusion. If you fall in love with a human woman, do you go to her owner and ask for permission to date your beloved lady friend? Perhaps, out of a sense of propriety… or because it’s safest (legally), or for some other reason outside of the realm of pure ethics. But… if her owner says no, do we recognize a moral imperative to honor that choice even though our newly-beloved says the exact opposite? No, we as zoos most certainly do not!

Toggle: When we put it in straight-up human slavery terms like that, it sounds pretty fucking barbaric, right? In the same way, if we recognize and indeed celebrate the reality of our nonhuman peers as autonomous agents, both willing and more than eager to make their own informed, adult decisions about their own romantic or intimate connections, then there’s just no way to make that fundamentally zooish recognition sit comfortably alongside some sort of moral requirement that we seek acquiescence from human “owners” prior to accepting intimate overtures from a nonhuman love interest. It’s wet, or dry – can’t be both, not at the same time, no how no way.

Zooey: Right then, we’re all in perfectly unanimous agreement that, looking at things purely from an ethical or moral zooish perspective – just that, no other sides brought into the mix! – not only is there nothing wrong with your relationship, In the Lab, but that to make such decisions based solely on the wishes of her “owners” would be a clear and troubling ethical failure on your part! In the land of pure ethics, it’s an open and shut case. Ah but, honey, none of us live in that pure land of ethics, and in this degraded old world of real risks and real consequences, we’ve simply got to mesh that purely perfect moral conclusion with the hard facts of living responsible lives: to ourselves, to our communities, and most of all to our nonhuman partners themselves.

Toggle: Even among humans, if you have a tryst with a young woman without her father’s permission, whilst we may all (nowadays) agree that what we’ve done is not morally wrong, we’re all also gonna face up to the fact that there could be consequences if he’s inclined to pull out his shotgun. And as backwards as it is morally, in our society nonhumans are – despite many efforts to break in new paradigms and less slavery-based models – legally recognized as property. So we suggest that while you shouldn’t feel bad – morally or ethically – about your relationship, basic precautions and practical considerations should be a co-equal concern of yours. She can’t balance that side of things – they’re human issues, and as the human in your relationship it’s 100% up to you to do so on behalf of both of you. Do NOT let your moral clarity cloud the practical responsibilities placed on your shoulders as a result of your wonderful relationship, ITL.

Zooey: Love has no bounds, In the Lab. It crosses genders, species, and sometimes, property lines. You have our blessing, as zooish examples in our own (earlier, younger) lives and as zooish folks always putting the views and interests of the nonhumans involved first and foremost. Buuuut… don’t be stupid or reckless, for both your sake and for your beautiful lab’s sake. We have a responsibility to our partners to keep them safe, and that always comes before our own needs and desires. Thanks for your very topical letter.

Toggle: We’ve got a number of excellent questions piling up from our listeners. If you haven’t heard your question answered today, don’t give up! There’s always more zooey advice in store for every single episode!

Zooey: That said, we are indeed out of time. We appreciate each and every one of our fabulous listeners for tuning in every month! We look forward to seeing you all again for more tales of cross-species romance!

Toggle: We’ll see you next time! Same zoo time, same zoo channel!


Fausty: Thanks, friends, for listening to Zooier Than Thou.

Toggle: You can subscribe to the podcast via our RSS feed: just point your favourite podcast client at and off you go.

Fausty: Our podcast’s website is, yep, Twitter @ZooierThanThou, and you can follow Zooey’s knotty advice @AskZooey.

Toggle: A reminder that we have a form that enables anonymous submissions to the podcast on our website,! You can tell us all the intimate details of your sex life, Ask Zooey about the ethics of fencehopping, or scream new insulting epithets at us that we’ll then use to introduce ourselves at the beginning of each episode!

Fausty: You can contact co-host Fausty through his website,, or use a messenger pigeon to contact him out in the wilderness of Pennsylvania!

Toggle: Zooier Than Thou has no DRM, so you can pirate each episode and burn them on a blank DVD to give to all your friends!

Fausty: All nonhumans on our writing staff got the consent of their humans to share their tawdriest, most erotic stories with our listeners.

Toggle: The most beautiful thing in the world is to share a relationship of trust and love with someone who outweighs you by an order of magnitude, who could kill you with a single kick, and yet who puts up with your silly human idiocy for reasons hard to fathom. That’s what it means to be loved by a horse, and there’s no experience that comes even close. 

Fausty: Be nice to each other. It’s the sexiest, zooiest thing you can do. This is old man Fausty, getting ready to take a nap.

Toggle: And this is Toggle, the rat next door, and you’ve almost finished listening to Zooier Than Thou! Stay Defiant, fellow zoos! We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon!

Share This:




Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guest Host: Kyon

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.

Special Thanks to everyone in the community that participated in this episode! We love you so much!


“Nowhere Land,” “Airship Serenity,” “Beachfront Celebration,” “Gymnopedie No.1,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


(Transcript to follow)

  1. Intro
  2. Shooting the Shit
  3. Zoo Pride
  4. “What Does Zoo Pride Mean to Me?”
  5. Zooey Limericks
  6. Fausty sings?
  7. A message from Fausty
  8. Outro
Share This:

Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Special Guest Host: Kyon

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


“Lobby Time,” “News Sting,” “Airport Lounge,” 
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “TV Talk Show Intro Music,”  
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


All Sound Effects provided by

(Transcript to follow)

  1. Disclaimer/Intro/Mailbag
  2. Sponsors
  3. Zooish vs. Zooey
  4. Interview with Kyon
  5. Ask Zooey
  6. Outro
Share This:

Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


“Lobby Time,” “Night on the Docks,” “The Complex,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,”  
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


(Transcript to follow)

  1. Intro
  2. Website Issues
  3. Mailbag
    1. Dog Park Princess
    2. Husband of a Mare
    3. Desert Rat
    4. Bearly Tame
  4. Call for Eulogies
  5. Outro
Share This:

Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


“Inspired,” “Lobby Time,” “Bossa Antigua,” “Airport Lounge.” “Leaving Home,”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” “We’ll Be Right Back Cut to Commercial Tv Music,” “Variety Show Segment Intro Tv Music,” “Afternoon Talk Show Tv Theme Music,”  
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Many sound effects provided by

Random goofy theme music created using the Ditty App, and brought back because you asked for it!

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


1. Disclaimer/Theme

(The Zooier Than Thou podcast contains mature content and language, and may not be appropriate for younger audiences. Thanks for understanding.)

Zooier Than Thou is on! You can join the howl!

2. Intro – Our Best Selves

Fausty: Greetings, beloved zoo nation, and welcome to this optimism-heavy episode of Zooier Than Thou. I’m your co-host and unrepentant old hippie, Fausty.

Toggle: And I’m Mr. Toggle Rat!

Fausty: We’ll be your guide to this episode’s selection of uplifting adventures.

Toggle: Gotta say that, wow, after everything that’s happened in the past month, it does feel good to pivot towards the positive side of things in balance with the harder work we’ve all been doing meanwhile.

Fausty: Indeed it does. Speaking from the seas of zooish podcasts, our collegues at The Zoo Troop certainly ripped us a new one in their sharp but not entirely invalid critique of our last two episodes. They not only took a hard swipe at the methodology with which we approached our animal torture exposé, but also made a rather withering point that my fake voice has not improved over the last couple of episodes. And that’s completely true. I’ve really been working on trying to capture the essence of my normal, everyday, stallion-esque voice. And, well, the truth is that I’ve been so sick lately that it’s hard to really bring the depth of that equine charisma to the fake voice I use on this podcast. So, yes, it’s an embarrassment – I get that. I’d like to make it less, umm, just so not anything amazing on the show here, but even the best technology can’t make my fake voice awesome. I get it, and I’m sorry for it. Hell, backed into a corner I’m just gonna blame cancer and take the easy way out.

Toggle: I’ve been trying, really I have, but any tweaking on my part seems to result in feedback and bruised eardrums. Trust me, if you think he sounds bad now, you don’t want to hear the alternative. We could bring down an airplane with the kind of bizarre radio waves emitted by this voice modulator. So for now, we’ll all have to just deal with Fausty’s shitty fake voice. Listening, try to imagine his mellifluous, commanding, charismatic everyday voice in place of this… this thing we’ve had to use. If we could only let him speak as he normally does – so much better!

Fausty: That aside, and in response to some of the critique we’ve received from other podcasts, we’d like to use this episode to explore the vast terrain of positive, forward-looking, constructive things zoos are doing and to acknowledge the collective embrace of our zoo culture as well all continue exploring the boundaries of what it means to be a zoo in 2019.

Toggle: To that end, let’s start with a really awesome e-mail we received a couple weeks ago from an Anonymouse Businessman. Anonymouse writes: “I’d just like to say a little thanks for saying the things most wont say, especially depending on their position. I run two hardware organizations and one deals with highly advanced military grade weaponry and aircraft and even in the most unlikely profession, zoophiles and zoo-allies still exist there, including me. Love knows no bounds and all I’ve ever wanted is for people to love whoever they want and be happy, but being in such a public position like this has really hindered my ability to do that without risking a lot. Good luck on your endeavors!”

Fausty: I really do want to say, thank you for reaching out to us, Anonymouse, because your letter does remind all our listeners that zoo allies are all around us, in the most unexpected places. One wonderful outcome of launching our little podcast has been the opportunity to touch noses with a much wider, more diverse, more broadly-positioned slice of the zoo universe than we normally see in, for example, the micro-universe of zoo twitter or whatever zoo forum is au courant this month. Like Anonymouse, I have been an entrepreneur early in my life, and I know how bigotry and hate can reach out to damage one’s effectiveness solely on the basis of a zooey sexual orientation. Many of us choose to remain quiet and closeted, knowing the real cost of pushing forward more openly – nobody needs to explain that to me, of all people. Having been through those fires of hell, for years stretching into decades, that cost is more real to me than most anyone else hearing this episode. At the same time, walking those hellish roads, and surviving the experience, has provided me with the somewhat unique privilege of speaking firsthand about life as a zoo, and to a degree about our community and its moral and ethical standards, to a vastly broader audience than would otherwise be possible. As always, I emphasize I’m a spokesman for or leader of no community, lest of all the raucous and inherently unstructured global community of zoos. Rather, I’m just one zoo – with all my own personal goods and bads – engaging with issues all zoos face, and most all zoos discuss amoungst ourselves in less public venues than this podcast. It’s healthy to have some of our otherwise-private world open to a wider public visibility: part of having pride in oneself and one’s community inherently includes a comfort in standing behind that identity and that group participation out in the open, where it counts. Those ashamed of themselves and who they are hide from public view, as a matter of course. Those, like zoos, proud of our positive role in the world and in our personal lives naturally embrace public engagement with who we are whenever possible.

Toggle: There is a sort of perception among many zoos that the best course of action is to lie low, be quiet, and just try not to be noticed. And that makes sense, when you’re trying to escape persecution. The reality of anti-zoo violence and bigotry is something that’s not just swept away with bluster and twitter-courage – unfortunately the real world has real consequences and real hatred that can result in terrible violence and hurt being done to victims of that bigotry. But I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. Exposure is the solution. Showing people who we actually are instead of letting them make up monster stories is the only true path to acceptance. And let’s be frank: the rest of the world could stand to be reminded that animals aren’t lower beings, that they aren’t subhuman, that treating them with the same basic respect humans give each other should be the norm. That starts with us, as humans who love animals a bit more deeply than the average Joe, and that’s the core tenant of this podcast. It may be a “zooier than thou” cliche to soapbox on the importance of zooish perspectives and zooish embrace of shared life on our planet – but, then again, we’re a Zooier Than Thou podcast so a bit of the ‘ole zooier sermonizing isn’t exactly out of character.

Fausty: Not everyone is in a position to publicly make these sorts of frank, honest declarations, and that’s something we respect here on Zooier Than Thou. We don’t want to be the authoritative zoo voice any topic or issue – that’s not our role, and not an authority we’d ever claim. Instead, what we’re working to do is to help get the ball rolling, just like the hundreds of podcasts that came before us. Our hope is we can inspire a hundred more podcasters to take up the mantle and do it a hundred times better than we do. Sharing life in the zoo society, from the everyday to the more exotic and intense (like we’ve been doing the past few episodes) is healthy for all of us. It reminds us, as zoos, that we’re an inherent and entirely constructive part of the larger human social world. It also helps non-zoos to get a better feel for who we actually are, in real life, simply as zoos being zoos. The truth matters, and reality always wins out in the end. Bizarre efforts to paint zoos as evil, violent, abusive monsters might well get short-term traction by pandering to people’s worst expectations and the desire to find a group to hate. That’s certainly happened in the past 20 years or so. Despite that, the actual objective fact of who we zoos actually are, how we actually live, what actually animates our relationships and our lives as zoos… that reality does inevitably overshadow the horrifying straw-man constructs of anti-zoo bigots. It takes time, and meanwhile so much suffering results from the bigotry those false stereotypes set loose. Far worse, all that energy poured into anti-zoo crusades and into murdering the families of zoos could have been spent actually working to help actual nonhumans be happier, healthier, free from real abuse and real exploitation. Nowhere has that gap of senseless anti-zoo violence and the reality of unaddressed horrific acts of animal torture been more clear than in the recent publication and public exposure of the infamous animal torture leaks we’ve been covering all this past month. Nowhere can we see more clearly the difference between imaginary “abuse” by caring, respectful, compassionate zoos with their partners and the reality of truly horrific, unspeakable, intentional violence and pain inflicted on nonhumans by dysfunctional animal torturers. That it has been zoos leading the charge against these dangerous, manipulative, vicious torturers could not speak more clearly to where zoos stand on the issue of genuine abuse of nonhumans: nobody, truly nobody, is more zealous in pursuing those who hurt nonhumans than zoos are. As zoos, we all know this – the non-zoo world, sadly, often has no idea of how vast that gap is between us and the true abusers. That’s beginning to change, though it’s tragic that what has opened some of those doors is the horrific reality of the torture that zoos have hunted down and exposed.

Toggle: And that’s gonna take one hell of a Zooier Than Thou attitude, but I have to say, that kind of passion and intensity when it comes to pursuing those who target nonhumans for victimization and abuse is a broadly common trait among the zoos I know and love. Stay defiant, Anonymouse, and keep loving with everything you’ve got!

Fausty: We’ve gotten a few more awesome e-mails from the community, but we’re gonna save some of the longer ones for our New Moon episode so we can give them the time and attention they deserve without bloating our core program. So stay tuned! If you haven’t heard your e-mail yet, we haven’t forgotten about you. Also some folks who email do request their comments remain private, and we always respect that. Know, listeners who have shared such emails with us, that your wisdom and contributed knowledge form part of all we do thereafter here at the podcast. If anything, the scaffold on which episodes are built often is those non-public emails that help us see the forest for the trees, and focus on what’s really top of mind in the zoo community right now.

Toggle: Coming up, we’ll be talking to the organizer of Zoophile Pride Day, ZT Horse, and we’ll be exploring ways in which we can open bottlenecks in expressing our best zoo selves. We are, as individuals and as a community, who we choose to be and who our actions show us to be. That means it’s up to us to craft our best selves, and to support those best sides of who we are – to “feed the good wolf” – in every way we can. We see it as a core objective of the podcast, supporting our best zoo selves, and this episodes digs into that and some ways such words become actions and through actions change the world for the better.

Fausty: Stay tuned for more Zooier Than Thou, right after this!


3. Secret Zoo – Blackmail

(Our scene begins with a generic iPhone ringtone, followed by the phone being answered)

John: This is John.

Extortionist: (through phone) John Doolittle?

John: (Unconcerned, but perhaps a little annoyed at having to repeat himself) Yes, this is he.

Extortionist: (With gleeful malice) I know all about you, John. I know your filthy little secret.

John: (Unfazed, possibly going through papers on his desk) Oh yeah?

Extortionist You think this is a joke?

John: I don’t know. I’m not exactly sure what you’re getting at.

Extortionist: Listen up, Johnny-boy, I’ve got proof of your unholy acts in the barnyard. If you don’t want dear ol’ Mom and Dad to get wind of your disgusting habits, you’re gonna have to pay up. You’re officially my bitch now.

John: Ahh, I see. That’s certainly very serious. So just to be clear, you’re saying that if I don’t pay you a certain amount of money, you’re going to tell my parents about my sexuality. Is that right?

Extortionist: You’re damn right.

John: How much is your silence worth?

Extortionist: Ten grand, and not a cent less.

John: Alright, just a moment.

(There’s a small beep, and then John is silent. The extortionist sniffs and clears his throat. A few seconds later, there’s another beep.)

John: Hello, ma?

Mother: Oh, John! It’s so nice you hear from you!

Extortionist: What the hell is this?

Mother: Excuse me?

John: Ma, this gentleman has a ten-thousand dollar secret to tell you.

Mother: What gentleman? Is everything alright, John?

John: Yeah, no worries, Ma. Go ahead, sir.

Extortionist: (At a loss) Wh- uh- well… (clearing his throat) I don’t know how to tell you this, ma’am, but your son is sick.

Mother: Oh, my God. John, what’s wrong?

Extortionist: I have evidence that your son has been involved in illicit activities with a number of animals.

Mother: Illicit activities?

John: He’s trying to say I’ve been in physical relationships with animals, Ma.

Mother: (upset) Jesus Christ, John, are you kidding me? (away from the phone) Greg! (enough pause for a response) Greg, pick up the phone in the living room. (another pause) Just pick up the damn phone.

Greg (Father): (there’s a click as he picks up the line) Hello?

Mother: (pointedly) Talk to your son. He thought it would be funny to call and tell us he has sex with animals.

Father: I beg your pardon?

John: Hi, Pa.

Father: John, did you call to tell your mother you have sex with animals?

John: Something like that. This other gentleman on the line thought you should know.

Father: Someone else is on the line?

Extortionist: I’m sorry to be the bearer of bad news, Mr. Doolittle. Your son has a problem and needs help.

Father: You need help? John, you know you can ask me for advice anytime you want. You know, I’ve pleasured a mare or two in my time.

Mom, John, Extortionist: (all at once)

  • Greg!
  • Jesus, Pa, seriously?
  • What the fuck?

Father: You know, I used to spend summers in high school on my uncle’s farm, and one day Dutchess gave me a wink while I was doing chores, and I couldn’t resist.

John: Pa, please stop.

Mother: Greg, there’s another person on the phone.

Extortionist: What the fuck is wrong with you people?

Father: We’re all adults, here. If our son is reaching out to us for advice, we should be able to speak candidly.

John: Pa, I don’t want advice about sex. (shuddering) Christ, I don’t ever want to think about you having sex again.

Extortionist: You’re all fucking sick. (grumbling as he hangs up the line) I can’t fucking believe this.

Father: What the heck was that guy’s problem?
John: He wanted ten-thousand dollars to keep my sex life from you guys.

Mother: He what? What did he think, you were just gonna give him ten thousand dollars?

Father: That’s just ridiculous. You know we love you no matter what, son.

John: I know, Pa. Love you, too.

Mother: I expect a call soon, and no more of this funny business about animals. Keep that to yourself.

John: Of course, Ma. Love ya.

Mother: (while hanging up) The nerve. Some people have no home training.

Narrator: Remember, folks, an extortionist only has as much power over you as you allow them to have. If you ever have to deal with blackmail, keep these important tips in mind.

  • The way you react to the threat will determine the price tag. If you can convince an extortionist that his threat doesn’t worry you, you can tip the odds in your favor. In fact, in many cases, you can neutralize the threat then and there. On the other hand, if you beg and plead, you raise the price of the threat and empower your extortionist.
  • Make sure to be kind to your attacker; insulting them could escalate the situation.
  • If your attacker is being indirect, ask them to clarify. Make them voice the threat fully. Don’t allow them to skirt the issue. If they’re going to be a scumbag, make them own the deed.
  • Never pay an extortionist, or satisfy the terms that are set for their silence. Eventually, they will be back for more, and nine times out of ten they’re going to disclose the harmful information anyway.
  • One of the most radical things you can do is disclose the harmful information yourself. It might seem painful, but consider: who do you want to tell your story? You, or a malicious actor?

Hopefully, you’ll never be in the position to make this difficult decision, but if you are, be prepared to do what you need to do. Above all, don’t let anyone keep you up at night and take advantage of your privacy. You hold the power. Never forget that.


4. Interview with ZT Horse

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 18:49

Welcome back, fellow zoos! We have a very special guest joining us today. I’d like to introduce the founder of Zoo Pride Day and head administrator of the ZooVille forums, ZT Horse.

Say hi, ZT!

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 18:50

Hi, ZT

Z T, 18.05.19 18:50

Hello everyone, glad you and Fausty could have me here.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 18:50

Pleasure to have you!

Z T, 18.05.19 18:50

The pleasure is all on this side of the table….

I heard the “diamond in the rough” podcast online, generally to keep up with the news, and this one stuck out to me. I had to contact you both.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 18:50

We’re honoured that we were able to stand out from the crowd – thank you!

Now, when we approach interviews, we’re looking to better understand our guests and the work they do – sometimes that means we’re going to dig into the loose edges, a bit, as it were: ask some tough questions, look to understand more than just the surface positions. Certainly we mean no disrespect in that, and we hope that the dialogue can be friendly and also incisive.

Z T, 18.05.19 18:51


Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 18:52

Don’t worry, we won’t be -too- hard on you!

Z T, 18.05.19 18:52


Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 18:52

So, there’s a lot of stuff I really want to get to, but I think the best place to start is ZooVille. ZooVille, for our listeners who are unfamiliar, is currently the most high-profile, high-traffic zoophile forum on the web. It’s quickly risen to that position after the much celebrated self-immolation of that despised cancer on the internet, beastforum. Given that short background, how did ZooVille come into being?

Z T, 18.05.19 18:53

In reply to Toggle Rat

Ah, that’s going to be a little long

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 18:53

In reply to Z T

Longer is always better! 😉

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 18:53


Z T, 18.05.19 18:54

Zooville collaboration started the day the announcement BF was going dark. like scattered sheep, a bunch of the good zoophiles, whom come to hate the tyrants that were running BF, Started off-loading the community in to the ark, that is… Telegram, discord, etc etc…

From there We gathered the best technical zoos whom could arrange the setup of a new site. We spent alot of hours late sweating over how to do what BF did, serverside, in as little as 2 months….

I was in the social community team, getting emails, contacts and information before BF went dark…

There was a total of 10 dedicated zoos, whome helped band together to form the needed zoo-power to get a new forum built.

On top of this, we worked in secret, and didnt annouce the site until BF was dead.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 18:57

Were the admins at BF aware this was going on, and if so what was their reaction?

Z T, 18.05.19 18:57

Absolutely not!

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 18:57

In reply to Z T

I would think they’d respond quite negatively if they had been aware – it is just how they tended to act, in general.

Z T, 18.05.19 18:58

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

We couldnt have gotten the good zoos out of there if we didnt work in secret.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 18:59

In reply to Z T

That would be a stressful period, working long hours and always under the risk that BF would get wind and do whatever dumb retaliation they’d think up.

Z T, 18.05.19 18:59

It was tough, but like giving birth, once the labor pain is gone, the new life has a fresh start.

a clean one, fausty

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:00

In reply to Z T

By all appearances, your team succeeded in exactly what you’d hoped to do – you have my congratuations for that as, having built many a forum myself with teams, I know it’s far from a trivial effort.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:01

Alright! Now, I’ve looked into the forum, and we’ve had several people write in about ZooVille, and one of the consistent concerns is the site turning into another BeastForum. Having browsed the forum a bit myself, I can’t say that concern is entirely unfounded. Why do you think that perception exists, and what do you think are the key differences that can give confidence in ZooVile taking a decidedly less destructive, parasitical, unhealthy path than beastforum infamously did?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:01

Great question toggle.

being in the forefront, its inevitable that what i call… Fetishists will come into the scene.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:02

As in, non-zoophiles that are into sex with animals?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:02

Not even that toggle.

These types are a meme. They just want to see a woman banging anything.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:03


Z T, 18.05.19 19:03

Fetishes. Lurkers.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:03

In reply to Z T

The degradation obsessives, yes?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:03

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

Indeed fausty.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:05

In reply to Z T

That is the market BFI has always targeted – Hans, the unsettling Dutchman who owns all those related “animal porn” companies, absolutely found a template of “woman being degraded by interaction with ‘animal’ and pumped out many such films. There is apparently a market of non-zoos who are attracted to that. It’s a problem for zoos, as they do tend to have an outsized impact in some areas of overlap.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:05

But with the open nature of the site, these types will arrive,

What we’ve tried to do very differently from BF, is we’ve set rules to curb abusive content, and excessive fetishistic content…

We’ve kept the site free of scat, and other extremes.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:05

In reply to Z T

I don’t know what you have against Ella Fitzgerald

Z T, 18.05.19 19:05

In reply to Toggle Rat

Laughs hard

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:05

In reply to Toggle Rat

sighs deeply

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:06

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

Oh, don’t you give me that, you dog mongler

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:06

They keep it to straight jazz, none of that weirdo avant garde stuff!

Z T, 18.05.19 19:06

In reply to Toggle Rat

We didn’t care for the fact that she was a huge BeastForum VIP scat member.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:06

In reply to Z T

Tons of audio file uploads, just pure bloody scat!

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:06


It really didn’t mean a thing, did it?

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:07

Unless it’s got that swing, nope.

Skadda de dadda de badda badda booo….

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:07

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

I’ve waited my whole life to hear you try to scat.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:07

Hahahaha – cornered!

Z T, 18.05.19 19:07

But back to the fetishists…

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:07

Yes, back to legit issues..

Z T, 18.05.19 19:08

mixed in that crowd, there are some curious about bestiality, some who want to try it, some who want their questions answered… and that was the real meat of the good parts of BF. It was the information given by the good zoos.

To support this, we’ve created the articles and blog sections…

Which is non-pornographic, dedicated and front page to the serious zoo discussion

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:09

In reply to Z T

Excellent – we have some questions targeting that coming up.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:09

the zooville mod team feels the information and conversation about zoo should be open to all.

This means we have to take the good, the bad and the ugly

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:11

I have a follow-on question that is long and, even for me, pretty aggressive. Are you comfortable with me dropping it into the interview? It is really my last and central bf-related question and I’d prefer to just get through it so we can move on.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:11


DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:12

So, with regards to becoming just another facsimile of BeastForum, what do you think sets you apart from BeastForum? I know we’re sort of hitting this issue hard, but this is the core question not only of the two of us personally, but of absolutely every listener who has written in and brought up this topic. Most everyone in the community seems intensely motivated not only to find non-beastforum opportunities to congregate and collaborate, but more than that to actively nip in the bud anything that seems to be steering down that dark path. We’ve all felt the burn from beastforum turning itself into a self-appointed lynchpin of interspecies internet dialogue, and I don’t think there’s any willingness to simply sit back and “hope for the best” if it seems like a forum is starting down that road. We’ve all learned a hard lesson from beastforum’s ugly path through the past 20 years of online life, and many of us aren’t just sitting back to allow another beastforum – or something worse – to get a head of steam whilst we do nothing. So as confrontational as this seems, what can you do to really lessen the concerns of the community on that question. Specifically, having received a temporary domain redirect from for a considerable period of time, can you say that ZooVille is truly and fully separate and distinct from beastforum and everyone involved as administrators with that blight on our world?

It is not intended to be disrespectful, but rather to clear the air for listeners so it’s addressed face-first and put to rest thereafter, I hope.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:12

I will be glad to answer that.

First off, if there something that corrupts, its money. Money is power. and absolute power corrupts absolutely. correct fausty?

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:14

In reply to Z T

I would absolutely not disagree with this statement, based on my own experiences. BF’s entanglement with for-profit animal porn ventures seems to have set a rot right at the centre of the whole thing.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:14

Agreed. BF was very secretive about its funding.

None of the mod team were ever associated with BF administration nor were they voluenteers in anyway with BF moderation…

I would set as the polar opposite a funding model like that employed by bluelight successfully for decades: a nonprofit, with an elected Board, and with tangible funding goals and transparent public reporting of funds and use of funds.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:16

In reply to Z T

This is very good to know.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:16

The first thing we decided to do, was make our funding transparent. We’ve disclosed all operating costs, the mod team is all voluneteer, and we’ve posted our public BTC address in which anyone with a block explorer can audit zoovilles funds.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:17

In reply to Z T

So in laymen’s terms for rats who don’t know what the fuck that means, basically, anyone who wants to can see where the money’s coming from and going to

Z T, 18.05.19 19:17

In reply to Toggle Rat

Yes toggle. Its 100% auditable

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:17

In reply to Z T

Does the site currently self-fund from inbound donations, or are there separate funding sources?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:18

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

The mod team self funded the initial startup phase and currently still is funding it. The donation’s at this time amount to about 600$.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:18

With regards to the redirect, how did that come to pass and what can you say to lessen concerns of our listeners that it implies a much closer connection between ZV and BF than would be otherwise acknowledged?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:20

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

We do not know. There were several competing forums after BF’s death, we are not alone. However with my social team, we also reached out to other forum creators to see if it was more viable to make our own forum or direct the zoos to an already made site.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:21

In reply to Z T

Are there plans to create “tiered access” that requires payment from members to access certain sections or materials?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:21

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

Absolutely Not.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:21

In reply to Z T

If it was within your control, and you could go back in time, would you want to have that redirect occur or would you have preferred that it did not happen?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:22

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

It makes no difference to me. All the zoos we cared about joined zooville because it was managed by zoos whom they knew and trusted. A team they also knew in real life for some.

Anyone else who wanted to join us, is just extra.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:22

In reply to Z T

Fair enough. I believe the next question is Toggle’s…

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:23

Alright, I have just one more question along these lines, and I want to ask it because everyone who’s contacted us and mentioned ZooVille have, without fail, mentioned this concern.

What do you think you guys at the site can do to address the concerns people have and prevent yourselves from falling into the same dark pitfalls that BeastForum found themselves in. I mean, in specific terms, are there things that your admin team is doing and has done to prevent even a drift in that direction, whether it would be intentional or not? Are there things about the beastforum lesson that directly motivate how you run the site, and what you know from that lesson in terms of how things can go wrong if not run effectively and with positive community engagement?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:24


After handling the funding portion…

We seperated our “power” in a sense by linking to other large forums and zoo sites.

Forumzoone is a german zoo forum with 10K members

Not affiliated with us in anyway, but they have an english section.

Equibooru is a booru site run by a very good zoo, based out of russia.

Also we had also share links…

So we also gave users a way out of ZV ever became tyrannical

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:26

If a member chooses to leave ZV or even is banned, are they able to remove or delete their content from the site afterwards?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:27

yes absolutely!

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:27

Ahh yes, that’s a big difference from beastforum and it’s affiliated sites

Z T, 18.05.19 19:27

We understand that the users content is their IP. They have the right to do what they will with it.

We give them so much freedom, they can choose to add crypto address to their works.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:28

In reply to Z T

That feels to me to be an important checkpoint against the sort of abusive things BF so often did with the content of members, often after they had left and cut all ties with the site.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:29

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

Now, for our listeners at home, I have to say that I brought a concern to staff over a post I saw in which someone passingly made reference to doing sexual activity that was clearly abusive, and they responded swiftly with disciplinary action. This is a step in the right direction, and definitely not a stance BeastForum made in the past.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:29

In reply to Toggle Rat

Yes our report button works!

and believe me, our mod team keeps the shit off of zoovilles streets.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:29

Although I haven’t had time to dive into the forum side of things like Toggle did – this is no decision on my part to set a low priority on that task, but rather really does reflect my health limits including a recent five-day stay in hospital due to cancer side effects. Despite that, I did take the chance to spend time here and there in the private telegram chat for ZooVille members. Overall, I really have enjoyed that venue and it’s been fun to watch discussions wax and wane – from time to time someone brings up something in which I’m a front-line participant, always a somewhat uncomfortable or awkward experience, but in this case when I’ve stepped in and clarified my role, discussions have been engaged and vibrant – overall healthy at a baseline level. Insofar as that chat reflects the evolving ethos and culture of ZooVille itself, it makes me feel optimistic about the overall tone of dialogue and manner in which the channel is managed and overseen. Do you think the chat is a good reflection of ZooVille more broadly, and if so what do you think is the key to building that kind of constructive, meaningful dialogue amoungst zoos?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:30

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

The chat is managed by Doglover101 on ZooVille. Im not actively involved deeply with that section. However, it was very carefully considered, and we chose a platform that allows encryption to protect our users.

But id like to add that zooville is a very free speech arena. Users have and did rail on the mod team publically, and we did not ban.

Instead we debated and conversed our critics.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:33

In reply to Z T

That’s certainly vastly different from BF!

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:33

Just to jump in, here, we actually mean the telegram chat :3

Z T, 18.05.19 19:33

In reply to Toggle Rat

Oh our wonderful little telegram chat.

Toggle, that chat is a relic of the initial gathering of the exodus from beastforum

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:34

In reply to Z T

A happy relic, indeed.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:34

its closed off now, and i kept it. Its a nice little space to kick up my hooves after a long day at ZooVille

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:36

In reply to Z T

I gotta say, I really like that space. That’s the kind of microcosm I’d want to exist in a zoo community.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:37

In reply to Toggle Rat

yes toggle and ZV has an arrangement for that…

Z T, 18.05.19 19:37

The groups tab, we allow groups of zoos to find their safe spaces. We understand being zoo is complex. Questions of politics, religion, and morality come up, and these discussions need safe spaces.

As you recall, such topics were banned on BF

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:38

Of all things to be banned

Please, post your chicken fucking video in 12 20 megabyte chunks, but refrain from talking about Buddhism.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:39

In reply to Z T

I lost track of the banspace on BF – it seemed arbitrary and entirely at the whim of whatever admin was in charge at the time, tbh.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:39

Those deep, i would even say spiritual discussions, just couldnt happen on BF.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:40

In reply to Z T

Those discussions did not generate revenue for Beaker and his co-owners of the porn side of things.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:40

We want that sort of discussion for the zoo community

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:40

In reply to Z T

I think there really is a spiritual center to our community that certainly gets neglected in a space like BeastForum

Z T, 18.05.19 19:41

In reply to Toggle Rat

Those conversations have to happen toggle. BF set us back 20 years on that important self actualization.

If we cannot come to grip and moral terms with ourselves, we are divided.

Divided we fall.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:42

In reply to Toggle Rat

BF served to strip almost all of the positive sides of the zoo experience from the discussion there, and left behind far too often the negative and damaged side of things – which, as we saw in situations like that of Kero, could and did result in horrible outcomes that left damage behind for years and years afterwards.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:42


DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:43

In reply to Toggle Rat

The tone and cultural energy of a forum absolutely starts with the leadership team, and without that they devolve into cesspools of drama and destructive intent.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:43

I don’t want to think about what happened to Kero. Let’s keep this positive.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:43

keep the kero to zero ok.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:43

In reply to Z T

You could write for the podcast with lines like that

Now, going back to something from before, I noticed that you place a lot of emphasis on the blogging and articles sections of the site. I’ve noticed you post articles quite frequently yourself. Why do you feel that these sections are so important?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:43

In reply to Toggle Rat

Emphasis on reach out to academics, researches, philosophers, and anyone from a non-zoo perspective.

These people are the ones we have to reach to get anywhere with our cause and strife.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:45

So these articles are somewhere where researchers can get a glimpse into our world?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:45

Articles, yes. It is all non-zoo written publications, studies, documentaries and information that gives a non-zoo an alternative perspective of our lifestyle, in hopes that they can change their prejudices they hold

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:47

There is a new generation of legitimate researchers (unlike Sendler, the fraud) who are taking a fresh look at us, more in line with Dr. Miletski’s work and more aware of the existence of false stereotypes that have no foundation in our social reality.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:49

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

That is key, but also, and i would say more importantly, is the philosophical defenders of zoo that write in our defense.

Winning minds, changes hearts.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:50

In reply to Z T

These remain fairly thin on the ground thus far, yes?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:50

They are growing in number, if you recall things like dearest pet.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:50

In reply to Z T

Yes, Dekkers opened many doors.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:51

We need more of that.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:52

I of course see an important role for journalistic coverage of zoo issues that is fact-based and objective – my own dedication to that kind of work likely biases my view of how important it is.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:52

Thats why articles on ZV exist, it is a special place for that.

Now Blogs…

Is an offshoot of articles, being written by zoos and for reaching that same academic audience

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:55

In reply to Z T

So we have articles for that objective perspective, and blogs for that personal perspective

I think that’s an important mix. Because you can’t really understand us without listening to us.

Z T, 18.05.19 19:56

Oh i wanted to point out one last thing…

Blogs are taken so seriously, a single inappropriate blog post or creation is awarded with infractions or a temporary 10 day ban for the user to meditate on the seriousness of that section.

It is NOT for porn.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:56

That sounds like a place where good things have the opportunity to happen – it’s not something I’ve seen as a focus in prior zoo forums, to be honest.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:57

You had another question about the articles section, Doug?

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 19:57

I think I’ve covered my questions regarding the blog section, to be honest.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 19:58

Alright, then, I think we’ve spent plenty of time talking about the forum. Let’s jump to the topic I’m really excited to cover. Can you tell us how Zoo Pride Day came into being?

Z T, 18.05.19 19:58

Ah zoo pride…

a fathom of a idea in the mind of zoos everywhere…

an idea lost without a home…

But it hit not just me, because i will admit, it wasnt my idea.

A very close zoo friend told me in our chat that he wished he could have a day where he can celebrate his self acceptence

Where not just him, but all zoos, can put aside their differences and celebrate the love our animal mates give us.

I was moved.

I felt my heart warm and smile at the idea.

because it’s a beautiful thing.

Thats where it started, it was homegrown.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:01

I love that

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:01

In your vision over time, how do you see Zoo Pride Day evolving into part of an overall community focus on positivity and constructive engagement overall? Where do you think it goes as more folks see it and choose to actively support it? Finally, how do you see that interacting with the larger social melee surrounding anti-zoo bigotry, cross-species activism, and efforts to move beyond hate-based caricatures of the zoo community in the larger social world?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:02

Fausty how hard is it to kill an idea?

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:03

I had an idea for a game of thrones skit called game of bones, but Fausty shot it down, and that was the death of a terrible idea

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:04

In reply to Toggle Rat

Not even an “idea,” that one – more of a bad joke manifesting as a thinly-laid concept! 😉

But really, this is a complex question – ideas can be killed, though mostly by killing everyone who carries them, which we hope is not the case in regards to any sort of formal zoo genocide.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:04

haha, but even then, history shows, the written idea is still immortal.

Ideas are what id say is closest to immortality we can ever get.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:04

In reply to Z T

Absolutely true. Even with censorship of the printed word, samizdat has proved to be profoundly resilient when activists and dissidents have the courage to retain their conviction and to share with others.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:04

that’s where this idea molded not into a pride event, not an event, fausty…

A holiday.

Its a holiday. A Celebration of an idea.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:05

In reply to Z T

The holiday idea is interesting, and has semantic power beyond the typical “event” concept.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:05

A holiday, where zoos in their own privacy, can join together in thanking our animal mates and the love they have given us.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:06

In reply to Z T

Do you see a public face to this, in some instances, or purely a private holiday?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:06

Think about this historically… even religiouslly…

There have been holidays held in private by persecuted people because open celebration was death

But these people, they clinged to that idea.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:07

In reply to Z T

Absolutely true: Jewish community, Roma, Early Christian communities, frankly.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:07

When the time came, when the old powers died off, these holidays became public

That is the binding union that is missing for zoos.

To put down the spear of country, politics and religion.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:10

In reply to Z T

In seeing this more in spiritual terms (which I, fwiw, have always found both compelling and naturally a part of my own orientation), it definitively sets it apart from the LGBT historiography in which rights and community improvement have always been framed in purely secular, legalistic terms. This charts a divergent course forward for zoos, one as you say more aligned with historically persecuted groups cohering around religious community than anything else.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:10

It’s a very deep love, it hurts me to my core there is divisions among us.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:11

In reply to Z T

Well every community has divisions and a degree of discord – I’d argue that is part of any healthy culture, although it can become extreme and tear that same culture apart.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:11

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

We should be united, in spirit, in the idea and love for our animals.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:12

For me the bright line in terms of zoo-on-zoo conflict has always been the use of outing and the overt efforts to destroy “opponents” within the zoo community by exposing them to attack from bigoted non-zoos. That is never healthy and when it happens it corrodes any sense of cohesive zoo community in a way that is nearly fatal and very difficult to heal.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:12

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

Ugh, that’s such garbage. I can’t stand that it’s ever come down to that sort of heinous shit.

But I have to say, ZT, That’s one hell of a concept, all together!

Kind of makes my original next question moot. But I’ll reframe it: so, on the forum page for the event, there’s some small forum-related events happening. How can people who aren’t affiliated with the forum participate?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:12

In reply to Toggle Rat

anyone can participate! zoos and non-zoos alike…

There is an art contest and a logo change contest like google does…

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:12

In reply to Z T

That’s a great concept, I think.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:13

On pride day and week, the logo will be changed to a community artist who wins the contest.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:13

In reply to Z T

Naturally the activist in me wants to see t-shirts, ball caps, pins, etc.

I myself wear a “zeta” lapel pin to many formal occasions – it is a small thing, likely rarely noticed, but it carries for me a sense of pride in myself and our community that is tangible and overt.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:13


Make america zoo again merch is a work in progess


Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:14


The old days of zoo America

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:15

In reply to Z T

That’s absolutely a line I played with over the winter – blue caps with that logo on them!

Z T, 18.05.19 20:15

In reply to Toggle Rat

Well id like to see the days where it was just a laughable offense and nothing more.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:15

Right, I can understand that.

I’m looking toward the future where it’s not even offensive, myself :3

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:16

In reply to Z T

I hope you’ll keep an eye on evolving efforts lead by zoos to root out truly evil activities that victimize nonhumans – I personally believe that such work is both vitally important standalone, and does also clearly demarcate to non-zoo audiences who we are as a community, what matters to us, and how we choose to engage with those who do truly bad things to nonhuman individuals.

It is to me a profound opportunity both to do right, and in bluntly political terms to be seen to be doing right in a way that resonates with anyone who cares about nonhumans.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:17

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

I have some comments to make to the non-zoo listeners on this subject

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:17

In reply to Z T

Please do!

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:17

In reply to Z T

By all means

Z T, 18.05.19 20:17

To those listening, who are non-zoos…

Remember that predators like crowds to hide their evil intentions…

With anti-bestiality laws in place, you are not aiding the zoo community to report the blatant sadists who like to hide in our crowd…

These people are evil, we hate them just as you do, but they entangle themselves, lie, cheat and blackmail good zoos to not speak up…

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:19

In reply to Z T

Yes, this has happened a lot

Z T, 18.05.19 20:19

by keep these archaic laws in place, you protect sadists.

Those zoos wont report in afraid of their own persectution.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:20

In reply to Z T

This is absolutely a side effect of anti-zoo laws and has resulted in many such situations going unreported for far too long.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:20

And not for a lack of moral obligation, certainly, as we’ve seen this past month

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:21

In reply to Toggle Rat

No. In fact we’ve seen many zoos come forward despite real concerns for their own safety – and the safety of their loved ones – because they simply could not continue to look the other way.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:21

They have fears, they dont want to be doxxed out of persecution.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:22

In reply to Z T

And it’s not personal fears. People don’t understand what happens to the animals zoos love when they’re persecuted

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:22

In reply to Z T

This is accurate, and – after filtering out the sadists simply trying to sow confusion and prevent their own exposure – there are many zoos who legitimately fear that ANY exposure of sadists will immediately morph into an anti-zoo jihad that merely targets healthy zoos and leaves sadists untouched. This has indeed happened before, and it is not an empty concern – not at all.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:23

That’s in fact exactly what happened last time, in September.

And the architects of those leaks actively knew they were making that happen. But that’s another story for last month.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:23

I understand many attacked you fausty for the leaks, many whom were zoo…

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:23

In reply to Z T

Fausty has been a real asshole on twitter, to be fair 😛

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:23

In reply to Z T

Many of the attacks that have taken place, from legitimate zoos, are absolutely reflections of deep fear on their part and as such I am far more empathetic with the causes of that fear than I take those attacks at all personally.

We are limited in what we can say right now, regarding the publication of the leaks and the current status of that.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:24

What needs to been seen and understood, is that these anti zoo laws protect sadists.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:24

In reply to Z T

This is something that is being addressed in how this leak and the heavy response forthcoming is playing out. I cannot speak to details at this point, for good reasons which I support. I can say that there is an opportunity here to turn over an entirely new page in the book of how good people who do care about nonhumans, but whom are absolutely non-zoos, view zoos and our relation to genuine abuse of nonhumans.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:24

I dont even like calling them zoo-sadists, because they are NOT zoo.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:24

That’s a fact.

They are torturers.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:25

I’ve had a zoo pm me and told me he was in tears seeing those leaks.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:26

They’re fucking god awful

Z T, 18.05.19 20:26

I tried to comb through them, but i couldnt do it. It’s like battery acid on my heart.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:26

In reply to Z T

I am not ashamed to say that I have spent hours simply sitting on the sofa and crying, as a result of working on these leaks. Just sobbing, moaning. They are so horrific, they scar anyone who does dig into them.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:26

That shit will ruin you.

I’m rarely not thinking about those leaks

I’ll have trouble sleeping sometimes

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:27

Now, the good news is that this issue has moved on to vastly larger spaces and vastly more highly-resourced activists working on this with us at this point. And that’s the most I can say for now on that.

Getting to that place, as Toggle knows, involved me breaking down in a certain phone call and I think that breakdown opened the door to a kind of zoo/non-zoo cooperation on this that is unprecedented and that I hope opens the door to many such efforts together in the future.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:27

Alright, seriously, I don’t want to think about this right now. Let’s get back to zoo pride day.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:29

Yes, back to Zoo Pride (though for me we, as zoos, have so much to be proud of in our exposure of these horrors thus far – this is part of being the best of ourselves, to do that hard work and do it as a community despite the scars and fears we all bring to such things)

But a lighter note: Is there a reason you chose July 1st for your holiday?

I’m assuming it’s not to overlap with Canada Day… although maybe I should just let you set out your choice rather than me putting my expectations foremost in the discussion?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:29

July 1st was chosen as there is a few normal animal holidays on that week


Our lovely animal mates tend to be in their… ahem… warmer periods.

wink wink

nudge nudge

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:30


Lord help this sinner

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:31

Summer, in the Northern Hemisphere, is indeed a time when all of us mammals tend to be more at ease and relaxed as we appreciate the good weather and sunshine.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:31

Nothing wrong in celebrating with some consentual interspecies loving. 😉

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:31

In reply to Z T

Fair enough!

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:31

Let me ask you a more personal question: to you and in your own framing, what does it mean to be a zoophile?

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:31

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

You bitch you stole my question.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:32

In reply to Toggle Rat

That’s actually true – though I’m not really a bitch, more of a pushy stallion 😉

Z T, 18.05.19 20:32

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

You treat your animals as your own body.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:33

In reply to Z T

So lots of fast food and soft drinks, right?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:33

In reply to Toggle Rat

laughs you did ask how I view being a zoo, which would be sans the trans fat.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:33


DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:33

Whole grains, lots of veggies…

Z T, 18.05.19 20:33

You cherish, care, and love your body. Or your supposed to anyway…

You should love your animal mate the same way.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:33

What kinds of things do you do you think it’s important for zoophiles to do so that we can always be our best selves, as zoos?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:34

Self acceptance. Reflection on how that changes your entire life goals.


Talk to most zoos, their dreams…

They are the salt of the earth usually…

a peaceful life on a slice of land, a little home with their mates.

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:35

In reply to Z T

So very true.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:35

Thats all they’d ever want.

Live their days out in peace

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:35

So my dream of being a country music singer is misguided after all, is what you’re saying?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:36

Not with that voice toggle

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:36

Haha fuck you

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:36

In reply to Toggle Rat

Less of a dream than a… weird surreal fantasy?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:36

Maybe a female 2nd string singer

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:36

What does that even mean?

Z T, 18.05.19 20:36

Like the backup of the backup of beyonce

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:36


DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:36

In reply to Toggle Rat

A post-postmodern zooish country scene might just work in today’s world – who the fuck knows?

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:37

In reply to DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink

I don’t think it’s off brand to really, really love your horse

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:37

In reply to Toggle Rat

Lots of zoodar hits in some of the old country classics tbh.

Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:37


DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:38

ZT, thanks so much for taking the time to speak with us today. Listeners, if you’re so inclined, feel free to take a look at, check out the articles, and join us in celebrating Zoo Pride Day on July 1st.

Z T, 18.05.19 20:38

Thank you for having me on the show!

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:38

(I’m still processing the “backup of the backup of beyonce” concept – it’s deep!)

Z T, 18.05.19 20:38


Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:39

In reply to Z T

Thanks for coming! It’s been a pleasure!

DB ‘fausty’ LeConte-Spink, 18.05.19 20:39

Thanks for being here, ZT, and congrats on the new forum – may it come to be all your hope, and more!

Z T, 18.05.19 20:39


Toggle Rat, 18.05.19 20:40

Still more Zooier Than Thou coming up! Stay tuned!


5. Ask Zooey

Zooey: Welcome back to Ask Zooey, the authoritative program for mutually respectful cross-species relationship advice. I’m your most famously fabulous host Zooey!

Toggle: And I’m just a do-good rat who got lost in the studio lot one day and got pulled in to co-host this show!

Zooey: We’re charged up and ready to answer those burning questions from our listeners at home! And from the heart, friends just don’t even hesitate to drop us a line through our twitter account, @askzooey (that’s Z-O-O-E-Y), through the @ZooierThanThou twitter, or using the all-too-apt anonymous submission form at with the subject “Ask Zooey!” Submission can be a kind of freedom, and your submissions will jump right into the work that Zooey does. Don’t be shy, we don’t bite…

Toggle: Lately we’ve gotten a nice steady uptick in meaty submissions from our four-legged friends, but we sure could stand to hear from more human listeners. The two-leggers seem a lot less comfortable with putting love life questions up for team solutions. No need to be shy, folks: four legs or two, we’ll always sniff out a way for everyone to find that healthy place to be close with loved ones!

Zooey: Today, we’ll start with a letter from Bitchy and Befuddled in Brisbane. Bitchy writes, “Dear Zooey: my human friend and I just started getting serious. We’ve been mostly just dating except for maybe a few days every six months for a few years. He’s been just really a wonderful gentleman all that time, kind and gentle, playful and handsome. To me he’s really a genuine stud, even if he’s not a dog. And when I decided to share myself with him, he’s never put a paw, or foot, down wrong with me. We plan out my times a long way out. He takes “vacation” at work, oh but he’s not on vacation with me! I showed him how to put his tongue to good use, and he’s just been the fastest and most passionate learner in that department, let me tell you. He’s a treasure, really he is. And when he’s under me, pleasuring me, tasting me… that’s a stud, just a different kind of stud than the normal ones. I say it’s not only about a gorgeous coat and dense ruff – he fills in with creativity in passion for all that stuff that he’s just not got.

But now that I’ve gone ahead and promoted him from just an unusually-eager and orally talented romantic suitor, to inside-tie-provider, I’m starting to realize, if we’re being honest here, he’s just not as well-endowed as I’d hoped. And it’s not just the short and skinny side of things, but it’s… I’m not sure how to say this gently, it’s that he doesn’t have a knot. And honey, I’m not trying to say that he’s stuck with some “GSD knot” that’s not so much knot, not at all. It’s that… there’s nothing there, girl. No-thing: just a shaft and then… the danglers, and nothing in between. Even the most nothing-to-inflate GSD boy is looking like the Goodyear Blimp compared to my “shaft-y” bald lover boy.

Step-over or step-aside? We’re not asking those questions here; there’s nothing for that poor gentleman to step over, and bless his heart but he sure does do his best to go through all the other motions. In the thrust-and-push department he’s right up there in Rottie territory – that part, he’s a stud’s stud and nothing to say but top marks, from this girl – but he’s never going to give a girl the tie she needs. And she sure does need those deep, throbbing, move-those-guts-around-new-man-in-town, stretch your world until it’s all stars and happy barks kinds of ties – the ones that leave you pulled-around and panting and sore but in a sore-so-you-want-to-howl-the-joy-of-the-tie kind of sore… a girl needs that, and when she needs that, and he can’t deliver? Should I fake satisfaction, and if I do won’t he know just from the physics of it all that I’m not fully-fulfilled? Am I setting us up for failure since he’ll always know I’m dreaming of him with everything he’s missing, and imagining what it would be like with us if his balloon wasn’t stuck in thin-banana mode? Is the truth what we need between us, or is this one of those times where too much truth breaks the tie, as it were? I love him for everything he is, and there’s so much more to a stud than a baseball knot and 30 minutes of can-barely-breathe big-boy inflation. I know that and it’s really true. Still… does that mean this passionate girl won’t ever get to feel that full-body satisfaction after a guts-deep tie?”

Toggle: Wow, what a passionate letter, Bitchy and Befuddled. Rest assured, you’re not the only bitch who’s written in with woes about their inevitably less-endowed two-legged lovers.

Zooey: But Bitchy, you touch on something very important with your question. Should you fake it? And the answer is a loud, resounding, “absolutely (k)not!” Honesty is so important in relationships, and expressing your dissatisfaction is the only way to resolve your issues and avoid creating bitterness and resentment in your relationship. It’s not easy, honey, and it’s gonna be awkward no matter how you ease him into the talk. But you love him, and girl I can see his love for you in every sentence you write about that dear boy. You work past that awkward part, because you’ve got a stud worth keeping in your personal at-home family pack.

Toggle: Luckily, Bitchy, there are solutions to your problem! Intimate aids of all shapes and sizes are plentiful and right on point for the craving you feel. There’s even plenty of variously-sized canine-style wearables that you can take a look at and see if they’ll fit your own needs. Some come with the knot fully engorged, and serve to add extra thickness and length to the entire shaft. Others have inflatable knots for a more natural tying experience. While you’re experiencing the bliss of the knot, your paramour is stimulated by the inside of the toy. Still others provide a knot for the base of his shaft while leaving his head exposed for normal penetration, a sort of “best of both worlds” approach. In all cases, it’s important for your human to purchase special lubricant for these occasions, as unlike regular canine cocks, these silicone supplements aren’t slick from the start. Don’t skimp on the lube! Mostly you’ll want thick and silicon-based for this kind of mutual pleasure: it’s the difference between a sore ending for both of you, and hours of escalating fun that leave you two lovers exhausted with pleasure.

Zooey: However, and this is important, toys aren’t the solution for every couple, and sometimes lube and toys just don’t work well with your bodies and how you engage with each other. Don’t force the idea just because it’s the “in” thing to do nowadays: Dragons may or may not be Bad, but that doesn’t mean your lady-parts feel that rubbery monster push into the mix and react like it’s a big, baseball-knotted heavy-breathing stud! Keep an open mind, but let your body tell you what works and what just doesn’t do the job. No shame in giving something a try and the two of you decide it’s just not doing the job, honey, none at all. Let the youtube young guns wow the world with their exotic appendage adventures – for us world-travelled girls, sometimes bright green and flaccid just isn’t gonna make us sit up and howl with delight. No shame in loving the real thing, girl!

Toggle: Above all, honesty and communication are key. If you’re faking it, he can’t work on refining and upgrading his performance for you. Without your honest feedback, even when it’s not all yips of orgasmic joy, he just can’t fully pleasure you the way you deserve to be pleasured. That, my passionate friend, can only lead to dissatisfaction and in the end it can’t but erode your relationship despite all you two have going for you. You’ll find that path to contentment and mutual honesty – no question from us on that! It may take some work, and some honest talk about the facts of nature when it comes to two-legged boys: they simply don’t have the tools that the furry gentlemen take for granted, and nothing you say will change that. No excuse for dishonesty, dear lady – that’s a challenge and I know you can rise to it and be stronger as a couple for the hard work you put in to finding that path forward, together and as a team.

Zooey: Thanks so much for your heartfelt inquiry, Bitchy. We’re nothing but confident in you two taking your pleasure to new heights, new levels of beauty. Don’t ever doubt him, or yourself, or the two of you as a mated pair. Stick with it, you’ll never be sorry for taking the honest way forward. We’re just telling you what I know you already know, girl – just confirming that truth in your heart. Go with that, never look back!

Toggle: Our next letter is from Smitten in SoCal. Smitten writes: “Dear Zooey, For the longest time, I was going stir crazy. It can be lonely being a show girl, working for fish, spending your days swimming in circles. But a few months ago, I met this great guy, one of the trainers here, and we hit it right off immediately. I’ve been hinting for months that I wanted to pursue something deeper than your typical trainer-dolphin relationship, but he’s a little thick, or maybe just reluctant. He finally got the message a couple of weeks ago, but time alone can be hard to come by. That’s not really the issue, though. It’s the logistics of intimacy. I’ve always thought being suspended together deep under the water was super romantic, but I’m sensing he’s not really into that idea. And then there’s the matter of his skin-tight swimsuit that keeps his manly endowment pinned tightly to his belly. What’s a girl to do? Don’t they make those with holes or something? We click on so many levels, but I can’t seem to communicate these basic desires in a way that breaks through to him on a… really on a personal level. I know he has strong feelings for me. And I also know that he’s a gentleman, and in being so attentive to my boundaries and right to choose whether physical intimacy is right for me, I actually think he’s just ended up making himself unable to react to what we’re both feeling in a natural and comfortable way. I love him for his caring and caution – that’s really part of what makes him such a wonderful guy. But, it’s also making it so hard for us to let things evolve the way we both know they should. It’s not in my nature to force the issue, or push him too hard and maybe make him feel I’m not respecting his wishes – of course that’s not me! But does that mean that we’ll never get the chance to just be two people enjoying our opportunity to share more than just friendship? I simply won’t let this opportunity slide past my fins without doing everything I can to let our closeness grow into what it wants to be! What should I do?”

Zooey: Well, Smitten, it may be possible that your paramour is reading you loud and clear, but there are certain limitations that prevent him from being able to fully fulfill your desires. One thing immediately comes to mind that you may not have given thought to, one that’s sort of obvious in hindsight, but even for an intellect like yours, just might not have really risen to the top of your mind. Though they’re also mammals, humans can’t hold their breath underwater the same way dolphins can. He probably does his best to cover for this limitation, and you might not have really noticed just how crippling that limitation is. It’s like his ability to see. He can’t see like you. He’s always seeing strange, inaccurate half-snapshots of pieces of the world. I know he covers for this handicap pretty well, and because of your caring for him you likely really don’t grasp just how crippled he is when it comes to vision and spatial awareness – but that might also be part of his hesitancy to really be intimate with you. Moving in free space underwater is, for him, a hall of mirrors – hardly helpful when it comes to comfortable intimacy, for anyone! And the same goes for the simple ability to retain breath underwater – a minute or two for him is going to be baseline, maybe a bit more, but not if he’s active, and love is an active pastime. Again, he’s worked hard to overcome those limits of his, to present a less crippled picture to you – he cares for you and of course he doesn’t want to seem weak and limited in your presence. What’s also natural is that, in caring for him, you really don’t dwell on those limits – that’s a beautiful thing, for both of you, but it’s putting some unintended blocks in the way of your connection. But, honey, that’s not a concrete wall too high to jump! Really it could be as simple as working with him in a shallower play space, giving him less intimidation from a complex environment as he eases into a closer physical space with you. And, you can help work around his human limits by making unnaturally-frequent surfacings seem like a natural act for you. Don’t force him to ask you to break off because he can’t manage his breath like a normal marine mammal! Guide him up, let him refill his limited lungs, and in time I think he’ll feel at ease enough to forget his handicaps – even if just for a short while – and partake in a physical love with you that’s not held back by his shortcomings. I know you can do it!

Toggle: We’re not experts in marine- to land-mammal cross species interaction, so we reached out to a dear friend of the show who is also a dolphin lover. Our expert suggested floating perpendicular to your human partner while he stands upright in shallow water. Or, for a more intimate position, floating on your back whilst he straddles you, still standing upright – this may provide more leverage for the pair of you to enjoy one another. And if we can take a page from Bitchy’s book above, never doubt the power of a human’s penchant for oral sex. Penetration isn’t everything, and I guarantee your two-legged lover will get as much out of your enjoyment of his tongue as you get out of him. It’s not conventional dolphin sex, and if that’s all you want you’ll just have to stick with the dolphin fellas. But, Smitten, I think we all know that’s not where you’re at. So embrace the chance to step beyond the standard playbook, and I know your gentleman friend will swim with you into all sorts of wonderful ways to be closer than ever.

Zooey: As for the wetsuit, we’re not familiar with any body suits that offer specially-placed holes for convenient sex with dolphins. I suggest that if your human boyfriend is in his wetsuit, he may be communicating that it’s not a good time for sex, without so many words – even if his body might be straining against those limits and hard as hard gets. That means he feels that special lust for you, and for the beauty of who you are – but that he’s also a responsible man and he’s not going to put you in an awkward spot by letting his lust run rampant over good decisions and wise choices. Remember he’s got pressures and problems up there in the dry flatlands. Even if they’re hard for you to take seriously, they’re real enough for him, and part of loving him is trusting him to balance those pressures just like you balance those in your world on his behalf. Trust me, girl, that when the stars align and it’s all fireworks and warm currents, there won’t be anything between the two of you to keep you from consummating your relationship.

Toggle: Through it all, remember that communication is a two-way street. Listen to his needs in the same way you expect him to listen to yours. Humans often communicate via body language and with other implicit cues, and picking up on that is important. He’s limited and his language doesn’t have the nuance you take for granted. The more you can keep that in mind, the less his limits will trip up what the two of you share. Just think of him not as effectively dis-abled, but instead as fully-able in different and challenging ways. You’ve got all the tools to fill in for where he can’t quite keep up – be generous with your gifts, and he’ll more than make up for it in his passion and true caring for you!

Zooey: We’re so glad to hear you’ve found a cure for the loneliness of show business, Smitten. Be patient with one another, and I’m sure you’ll spend many happy years together. We think you two are close to that big breakthrough, and we sure hope our advice helps ease those final tight squeezes between you and open waters.

Toggle: Treasure what you’ve found together, take the time to let it flower, and those years are yours for the taking. You’re more than smart enough to fill in for his weak spots, and together the two of you are more than each separate – let that strength guide your closeness and it will find a way to develop into everything you’ve dreamed of.

Zooey: Friends, that’s all the time we have this week. Next episode, when the moon is at her fullest, we’ll have more stories from the front lines of cross-species love and we’ll be right here helping smooth out those little rough bits that come from cooking with complex ingredients!

Toggle: But remember, the best dishes come out of a mix of all sorts of different flavors – it takes some creativity, plenty of honesty, and a whole lot of mutual caring. But we see it every episode: the result is passion and love that’s unmatched in this hard world we call home. Never skimp on the love, dear friends, never settle for half-baked when the full meal is right there to be celebrated.

Zooey: We’ll help you get there, while you help us share your real-life stories with everyone out there walking the path of true love.

Toggle: We’ll see you next time, same zoo time, same zoo channel!


6. Outro

Fausty: Thanks, friends, for listening to Zooier Than Thou.

Toggle: You can subscribe to the podcast via our RSS feed: just point your favourite podcast client at and off you go.

Fausty: Our podcast’s website is, yep, Twitter @ZooierThanThou, and you can follow Zooey’s knotty advice @AskZooey.

Toggle: A reminder that we have a form that enables anonymous submissions to the podcast on our website,! You can ask Zooey the best way to woo a goat, tell Fausty his voice sucks, or send us ASCII art of a horse’s butt!

Fausty: You can contact co-host Fausty through his website,, or by looking in the mirror and repeating three times, “Fausty, Fausty, Fausty.” It works! Try it!

Toggle: Zooier Than Thou isn’t trademarked and you can share it with anyone you want – think PS4, not XBOX One.

Fausty: All nonhumans who helped make this podcast happen definitely had the consent of their human partners. We got those consent formed signed in triplicate.

Toggle: Rottweiler studs tend to have incredibly long ties, up to an hour! Plan accordingly.

Fausty: Be nice to each other. It’s the sexiest, zooiest thing you can do.

Toggle: Stay Defiant, fellow zoos!

Share This:

Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


“The Complex”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music,” 
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


Fausty: Hello, fellow zoos, and welcome to a very important new moon episode of Zooier Than Thou. I’m Fausty.

Toggle: And I’m Toggle, Doug Spink’s faithful lackey slash peon.

Fausty: And we’ll be your steadfast guides for this episode.

Toggle: We got a lot of positive comments on our last episode, but one of the funniest for us was, “Please stop doing comedy!” Well, the good news is, we really don’t have a lot of funny things to say tonight. Suffice it to say, the past two weeks since the last episode have been intense.

Fausty: We’re going to attempt to lay everything out and make sense of it for you, tell you how we got to where we are now, and tell you what happens going forward. There’s a lot to unpack, and a lot of it’s unpleasant, but we feel like it’s very important to talk about.

Toggle: It started with the first e-mail we received, from someone called Shadowwoof who claimed to have insider knowledge of what happened with regards to Kero and the first leaks. He said, “I deal with this stuff. If you’re really in doubt, talk to me personally.” And of course, he sent a link to a giant telegram archive which we specifically said we didn’t want. So I told him to contact Fausty, and he did.

Fausty: This guy came out of the door swinging. “I’ve been watching you for some time,” just boasting and intimidating from the start. He said he had solid proof on Kero. Ok, so prove it. He couldn’t. Eventually, he conceded that there was no hard proof that Kero actually did anything, that everything was circumstantial. He then proceeded to tell me that he knew where I lived. Did you know I lived in Chicago, Toggle?

Toggle: Wow, that’s news to me! I could have sworn you explicitly said you lived in Harmony, Pennsylvania on one of our episodes for everyone to hear. Such savvy misdirection on your part!

Fausty: This is one of those conversations that’s really difficult to gloss or summarise. Early on, he threatens me with some sort of dire consequences – not sure what I was or was not supposed to do to avoid this, but oh well. My immediate reaction, as is my usual policy, was to tell him to go ahead and do it – whatever “it” is. Best way to deal with threats is to jump right to the money shot and get it over with. Then you can loop back and continue doing what you were doing. Next I’m told I am dealing with the Leader of Online Zoos. Literally, that’s the title. This runs in circles, never leaving surreal along the way. I’m banned from a Telegram group I don’t belong to, accused of trying to out someone along the way (no idea who), reminded of dire consequences… basically we’re going nowhere and I need a second set of eyes because I can’t make sense of any of this.

Toggle: At some point, Fausty pulled me into a group chat with this guy, and I’m already like, I want nothing to do with him. So we’re in this chat, with three different versions of Shadow, and he messages me on one of them like, “why are in you in this chat?” And I’m like, “I was added to the chat.” And he says, “Leave.” So obviously, I didn’t leave, even though I wanted to. He called me a peon and a lackey, which was incredibly insulting, by the way, the whole time thrashing about and making demands. It became clear this guy was used to throwing his weight around and getting what he wanted out of people, and I wasn’t interested in being bullied around. So he kept harping about how we didn’t have any leverage on him, we couldn’t prove anything, you know, the types of things people don’t usually say when they’re innocent.

Fausty: That concept of “leverage” and who does or does not have it has been put to me more in the past two weeks than in all the rest of my life. I’ve been told I don’t have leverage over people I don’t even know, apropos of nothing, more than once. Leverage? In this case, it’s someone who contacted us promising to correct errors in our last episode – we got from there to leverage in no time whatsoever. And remember: this guy comes to us claiming to have info on Kero, and he doesn’t. Strike one. He threatens me, and tries to intimidate Toggle. Strike two. Then he claims credit for nailing the guy in Cuba, and that’s strike out, buddy. Also there’s more strikes – correcting errors that he never even points out let alone corrects, threatening me with who-knows-what for no idea reason, creepy insinuations of being “local” to me by repeatedly sending me pictures of hot dogs… yes, hot dogs – but really who’s counting by now? I’m ready to write off this guy as harmless but crazy, just a bunch of 2-legger politics and weird zoo power dynamics… unfortunate, but unfortunately not uncommon. But then, something kind of clicked. Nobody legitimate uses zoosadism as background music for their Telegram shenanigans, do they? It’s at first just a hunch, a sense that there’s no possible way a discussion like this happens with someone living in what I now think of as the non-torture world. So I kept pressing him, by now so flagrantly that it risks tipping over into satire. This is completely not-fun, but I had a sense it might just pay off. It did.

Toggle: I was like, “I don’t know why you’re still goading him. But then fausty’s like, “This is why,” and sends me a forwarded message Shadow sent from Akela accusing him of being a zoosadist. “After all,” Akela writes, “the best way to hide as something is to pretend to be against the exact same thing.”

Fausty: Shadow sent me that to prove that he was friends with Akela? I have no real idea what he thought he was doing, but he went right into defensive mode after that. “Show me literally anything you have on me that links me stronger to zoosadism than Kero. Prove it. You can’t.” That’s not how someone not tied up in this shit acts when confronted with such an accusation. This is something else we’ve seen way too much of the past two weeks: ask someone if they are a torturing sadist, and their reply is “you can’t prove that, there’s no proof.” Well ok… I mean an answer like that probably wouldn’t convince a 12-person jury beyond a reasonable doubt of guilt, buuuuut… I can count how many times I’ve ever had that reply from anyone in my entire life, before this past 2 weeks, on one paw with toes to spare. Given that I’ve spent about six years of my life in various federal prisons, that’s kind of an interesting statistic.

Toggle: The conversation just got weirder and exponentially darker from there. Shadow started throwing everyone he could under the bus. He accused Akela of a profoundly destructive prediliction, after harping on what good friends they were. Brags that he’s untraceable, that he’s deleted all the evidence… deleted all the evidence! – even though of course fausty’s been screencapping everything in real time, says that he’ll just claim that the conversations are faked. Then the unthinkable happens.

Fausty: Well I’d been trying to make a Telegram voice connection for a while at the end of the chat – mostly just to show that we’re still in reality-land here, and that we’re still just two male humans exchanging language. Bring things back to stable ground, as it were – text chat can get pretty weird if left to its own devices. And he’s not answering, and I’m not surprised. But then, after I tell him I’ve heard all I need to know and I’ve got things to do, he calls me back. I take the call, tell him I’m recording it so I can share it with others if necessary, and confirm he’s ok with being recorded. He says yes. And I step through how I feel like our chat just went, what I feel like he’s tacitly admitted to being and doing, and how I feel it’s necessary to respond to such admissions. And by now he’s going backwards, denying having admitted anything, claiming to be the scourge of torturing sadists, and so on. I tell him he can’t even fucking figure out where I live from the hints such as me saying where I live in the last podcast episode he claims he’s calling in to correct errors in, so I’m not sure I can imagine him being the scourge of anything. Eventually I simply told him I’d heard what I needed, and that anyone else working with us could listen to the call, read the chat, and come to their own conclusions. My work, I told him, was done in this and he’d have to answer to folks with alot more power and authority than I in all this. By then, about six hours into this interaction, I admit that I’m fed up and angry. This is about god-damned torture of animals, and somehow this asshole has run in circles all the time without showing any signs he gives a shit about that. Like so much else we’ll soon experience, he seems much more focussed on the politics and appearance and power dynamics at play between different people and groups… and the rounding error is torture. Well I’m sorry, but fuck that – backwards priorities for me. Basically, I’ve concluded this guy is deep in the entire swirl of sadists and violent monsters we’re zeroing in on, and in his own words he’s functionally labelled himself as one already. So I’m done, call’s over. Oh and one more thing: in those hours of talking, he’s not once brought up nonhumans, concern for nonhumans, or frankly anything even vaguely zooish in any way. This was 100% 2-legger power politics… from the ersatz Leader of Online Zoos. Fucking whatever, man.

Toggle: We felt the next best move was to talk to Akela, let him know what Shadow was saying, and find out his side of the story. We’re told that, immediately after fausty finished his call, Shadow went totally ape shit in the zooadmin telegram chat, threatening to go public with some logs that were under federal investigation in retaliation against Akela, whom he thought we’d already contacted but hadn’t. We’re getting pinged from every direction, asking us what the hell just happened, and we’re kind of not sure how to answer.

Fausty: Yep. From total strangers and old contact alike, I’m getting asked: “Man, what the fuck did you guys do? Shadow’s going apeshit!” Since then, we’ve been slowly filling in the bigger picture piece by disgusting piece. It’s been a really unpleasant process.

Toggle: Oh, and keep in mind, in the background, Shadowwoof is spinning up fake accounts to message saying, “Hi, Fausty, Shadow’s not such a bad guy! Be nice to him!” It’s like some bad parody of sockpuppeting, really only worth pity.

Fausty: There’s a lot of unpleasantness that followed in these conversations. Details of a consensual blackmail fetish group tied into these zoosadists, details of acts committed by different torturers, details of who was involved and how they were involved. Things were starting to make sense, how Akela was involved, how Kero was involved, how SnakeThing was involved… and the fact that there were torturers that weren’t released in the first leaks in September, ringleaders that had been scrubbed from the leaks. Now, I have to pause and say that at this point, a lot of information we were receiving was misdirection. But in receiving it from multiple directions, we were able to begin piecing together what was real and what wasn’t. That’s a slow, frustrating process – made necessary because so many of the people we’re now talking to are absolutely unapologetic and occasionally pathological liars. Someone tells you the sky is blue, you stick your head out the window to double-check. That bad. Over and over and over. Despite that, we can winnow down some baseline facts, some reliably-imputed structure, some well-defined areas where we’re still lacking reliable knowledge, and a whole bunch of mostly-reliable, internally-consistent, best-estimate-from-known-facts inferences and deductions. There’s a picture: some areas sharp, some blurry. But it’s a picture. An ugly fucking picture.

Toggle: Two things that were becoming consistent: one, Kero was being groomed by SnakeThing, likely since before he was a legal adult. Kero did participate in the sharing and consumption of torture videos, but he’d have moments of clarity where he’d be disgusted with himself and try to walk away, but he’d be back again the next day. Being groomed into this stuff is a soul-crushing process, and Kero was steeped in it for years. That he never ended up participating himself is noteworthy, given that information.

Fausty: As an aside, reading back through years of Kero’s logs and DMs, I can only say that we failed this young man as a community, first and foremost. He was so young when he showed up at BeastForum – which, by the way, having 13 year olds in a porn forum maybe not such a fucking responsible decision, Beaker – and nearly all the peer pressure he’s getting is to relax his ethics, not be so worried about a little violence, admit he likes the “hard stuff.” What the fucking fuck. Seeing how that happened at BeastForum, I can only say that our worst suspicions of how noxious that forum had become don’t even come close to matching reality. Irrespective, the failure here is collective: this young man drifted deeper and deeper into a world of pure shit, and really nowhere along the way did anyone reach out and actually try to show a better path. Maybe everyone’s just too busy screaming about bullshit on twitter or whatever, but we all bear responsibility for an environment in which the most obvious place for a youngster to learn about our world is a noxious scamware site run by a drooling idiot hiding out in the UK. Back to number two: everyone we talked to was afraid of someone — of Akela, of Shadowwoof, of each other, of “them,” sometimes of Toggle and I. They all seemed to have leverage over each other. They all sought leverage over us, or claimed to have it already. Fucking leverage. Right now, I’d like to leverage this whole shitpile of broken souls into the ocean and pretend it never existed. Honestly. Fucking leverage.

Toggle: One thing to note is that when we approached this, we went very directly. It wasn’t about gaining leverage over people to blackmail them – which, we realised, was a huge surprise to almost everyone in this. It was about saying, “Hey. Tell us what’s going on, or get the hell out of our way.” And that seemed like a foreign language to these folks. No matter how much we’d simply say we’re looking to learn what happened and what’s happening now, most we talked to could not imagine any such thing. It was just a ruse, to try to get them to give us leverage. We’re trying to correct any errors in our little podcast, and like that we’re down a dark rabbit hole of blackmail, violence, lies, underage grooming, threats, and… leverage, of course.

Fausty: So one particular person who’s been giving me a lot of information, he’s been acting a little suspicious. Just little things. I noticed at one point he stopped using periods when typing. “Oh, that’s weird,” I said. “All your periods disappeared.” “Stop being so paranoid!” he said. Which was weird. I didn’t accuse him of anything. I just noticed his writing had changed a bit. Another, I answered his snarky question with “ok.” Just “ok.” He replies that I need to stop accusing everyone of being spies or sadists, if I want to have anyone talk to me. Huh? You got all that from “ok?” These gruesome jumps were everywhere we turned, and you never know when you’ll ask a straightforward question and end up off in some parallel universe of lies and accusations as a direct result.

Toggle: Just to jump in: another unsettling theme was that it seemed every time we stumbled upon something legitimate, the person we were talking to would be like, “Stop being paranoid.” Fausty is a paranoid motherfucker. Clinically paranoid. It’s fair to call him paranoid. But when every single time you say it, what he’s paranoid about ends up being true, it’s alarming confirmation of that paranoia. You can’t excuse a fact by insisting that fausty is paranoid and that’s why he uncovered the fact. That’s just not how reality works. He may be paranoid… heck as he’ll tell you himself, he is paranoid – and for good reason, if you ask me – but that doesn’t change whether water is wet or gravity works even in a vacuum. They’re totally unrelated issues. I have seen fausty called paranoid right after he told someone he’s paranoid – and more than once! Times like that, you really do have to laugh despite the ugliness of all this.

Fausty: Mostly I just tell people upfront: I’m normally suspicious and after what I’ve seen lately, I’m right up in full paranoid mode right now, so please don’t act surprised when I act suspicious. But it never works. We get into a talk, something doesn’t like up, I point that out, and “fuck you fausty, you paranoid fuck!” Well sure ok… but that still doesn’t line up. I dunno… I wish I was imagining all this stuff, I really do. That’d be a much better world. With one guy, he’s lecturing me about how I don’t “get it” and never will, and I’m asking him to explain “it,” and he’s sort of dancing around and suggesting he can help… but he doesn’t. And I’m sort of watching the clock, thinking “I could be doing literally anything but this right now… why the hell and I talking to this tragically damaged human being I’ve never met and never will? And then he used the term “puppy splitter” to describe one of the acts. Just out of the blue, like you might say “pipe cleaner” or “estate planner.” Puppy splitter. Horrific, just fucking horrific. And worse: it kind of sounded familiar. Where did I hear that before? So this guy seems particularly preoccupied with Rainstirs, asking for everything I know about him. That’s fine. I sent him an audio clip with details about it, only, out of paranoid habit, I changed a couple of details. Basically I said that I had helped hunt down Rainstirs and stop him (at least temporarily, unfortunately) from “cutting dogs open and fucking their entrails while they were still alive and screaming in pain.” You know, the usual stuff – just with “puppy” changed to dog and one more change I prefer to keep private for future use. Stepping back, he started out by saying that he and Akela had been stalled for the past six months on their work, but later in the conversation, he said, “Well, you know, we’ve actually got this all under control, so don’t worry about it.” Well, of course I’m worried about it. Animals are being tortured to death, and you’ve been sitting on your ass for six months, and now you’re trying to tell me it’s all under control? Bullshit. Also nobody has said a word about Rainstirs in all this yet. Nothing. I told the story only to demonstrate the absurdly awful things I’ve seen before, which yes Rainstirs, and suddenly someone’s echoing back details of Rainstirs’ evisceration techniques to me in perfect detail. Woah woah woah… just fucking back this shit up a minute…

Toggle: Inserting another theme here. When we realized we were being misdirected, a common theme in that misdirection was, “Everything is under control. Just don’t do anything rash, or you could fuck everything up. We’ve got this.”

Fausty: Yes. Whenever things got awkward to the point of surreal, we’d fall into the “it’s all being handled, the details are secret, nothing to see here folks, move right along, these are not the torturers you are looking for” black hole. So, in this convo, I tell him I have no intention of letting this go, and he starts demanding that I send him everything I have on Rainstirs. Rainstirs? Why Rainstirs. That was a decade ago. So I say, “OK, I’ll send you everything.” And he’s like, “Good, good.” “No, of course I’m not going to send you everything, you idiot.” “Well, don’t you agree that he should be stopped?” And then he proceeds to describe, in detail, the exact acts that Rainstirs committed, echoing back a puppy-based evisceration scenario… and he also flips another little tidbit to the the way Rainstirs actually did things in his videos. So, right there, either you have watched all of Rainstirs videos amazingly closely (a disgusting job I’ve actually done but I hope few others have), or you are Rainstirs and you know how you did things in the videos. Neither of which lined up with who I was supposed to be talking to. Which, of course I’m paranoid, but I’m thinking the average person doesn’t just randomly switch “dog” to “puppy” in that wonderful little scene, when they repeat the unimaginably evil thing I’ve just told them in my voice message. Which… I guess I’m paranoid for noticing that? When I pointed it out, he was like, “Oh, you know, I meant what you said before.” “No, but you don’t understand. What you described by accident is exactly what Rainstirs did. Which means you’re either very familiar with Rainstirs’ videos, or you’re Rainstirs.” And there was a pause. And he replied, “So what happens now?” Well, I told him I had a PET scan that day, and it wasn’t good news. “How long you got,” he asked. “Hard to say,” I said. “I’m guessing maybe six months until I’m in the hospital. You think that’s enough time?” “I don’t know,” he said. “I do.” He tells me that, oddly, he respects me – I’m an ass, but he respects me. I tell him I can’t say the same about him, and he says he can certainly understand why. That happened, it really did. Now, this was in theory a chat with some furry kid who owns that account… which yeah I guess maybe he just went haywire and said those things. I may be paranoid, but you’re gonna have to be one hell of a conspiracy theorist to explain how a random furry suddenly starts answering questions as Rainstirs. Because that’s what he was doing – call it what you will, but that’s what it looks like.

Toggle: So Rainstirs, aka Tim Amaroso, reached out to us using a false account to find out what we knew about him. That’s what I’m seeing here. This was in a plaintext Telegram chat. Multiple folks can log into the same account in such chats and participate simultaneously in the same chat as the same account…

Fausty: Right, and later on when I pointed this out to Akela, he at first told me it couldn’t be done, then admitted maybe it could be done… then told me that, go figure, he was logged into someone else’s Telegram account at the same time as them right then, as he was typing. So yes, I’m paranoid – but you tell me if that’s the kind of thing you have happen on a daily basis. What are the chances, eh?

Toggle: Earlier in that conversation, someone said that he’d been a part of every zoosadism investigation squad from last September, which means he had access to all the information they had and was able to sabotage the work they were doing. Theoretically. If you’re paranoid.

Fausty: Furthermore, there were two people talking through that fake account – I pointed this out, and was told that he was “sometimes walking outside and typed differently on his phone.” Ok, maybe… but then later it was “I have carpal tunnel,” which makes no sense whatsoever as an explanation. Tim – assuming one of the two was Tim, talking at the end – didn’t use the same grammar as the first person. Does that “prove” anything? Well, add in the otherwise-inexplicable inclusion of Tim-specific evisceration details, and the later admission that yes these folks do login concurrently to each others’ Telegram accounts… and you tell me: what’s your conclusion, eh? Proof? No. But Occam says it walks and talks and quacks like a fucking puppy torturer, maybe don’t trust it around puppies.

Toggle: So at this point, we’re coming to these conclusions: First, the logs that Akela released in September were only meant to ruin SnakeThing — and ruin is in quotes here. Some other people got leaked in the meantime, and they were super pissed and have been sweeping themselves under the rug since. Second, Kero was brought in and being groomed by Nel — SnakeThing, that is. But they didn’t trust him; he wasn’t a monster, but he had a lot of potentially damaging information. So they took him down and marked him as a zoosadist and neutralized him as a threat. Which worked brilliantly by the way. Who would listen to Kero now if he pointed out nearly-unimaginable horrors or whatever else he knows but can’t really make stick after this horrible lynching he suffered.

Fausty: Third, these zoosadists joined all three investigation groups to misdirect and generate infighting within. All three groups melted down. Not entirely an accident. Fourth, the podcast picking this investigation back up and examining it was incredibly frustrating to the torturers left unpunished, who had apparently been breathing easy and felt their efforts had basically worked, which is why they started targeting us with misdirection and misinformation. Infiltrate, inject false “disclosures” to us, create infighting, if possible. Misdirect our attention. We have seen exactly this pattern, in neon bright clarity. And the groups investigating this last year saw the exact same thing – and fell apart thereafter.

Toggle: I’m sad to say that there was some infighting in our group. One thing that breaks down in this dark world is trust. Trust is so important for normal, healthy people, but it’s a liability when everyone you’re talking to is saying, “Trust me, it’s all OK,” and lying through their teeth. Who can you trust? No one. Not even your friendly rat cohost, or other people involved I won’t name. No one can be trusted.

Fausty: Yep, I did pull Toggle up one afternoon. Things were lining up in some uncomfortable coincidences. Too many to simply ignore. So I confronted him. Know what he didn’t do? He didn’t talk about leverage. He didn’t threaten me. He didn’t say “you can’t prove it.” What did he do? He told me he was devastated by what I was saying, that he had no idea what to say, that he thought we were friends, and that this “suck so fucking much.” All of that was absolutely true – and all if it was painful, and damaging, and sad. And all if that was necessary because we’re dealing with a world where lies are absolutely the coin of the realm. I fucking hated doing that with Toggle. Disgusting. And I’m disgusted that I know how to do that, and that I can make myself do it. But I did – because tortured puppies. And I told Toggle I hoped he’d forgive me someday, because tortured puppies. I told him I’d burn his friendship to protect myself from being sent off on a dead-end tangent, if necessary. I’d pay that price – I’d pay just about any price. And I will. And that’s tragic. To get out of those deep, dark corners once the ugly testing is done, you have to kind of rely on a deeper kind of trust. No, I can’t trust that you’re not lying to me. I want to – but I know you might be getting “leveraged” right now and I can’t pretend that’s even unlikely in this shit-stained mess of a slice of humanity. But I trust that things will generally turn better, I trust that you, even if you’re lying to me, even if you’re involved in terrible things, can eventually make changes to be better. We’ve been in a very dark place for the past two weeks, and it does take a toll on relationships, even really close ones. We have one goal: we will stop these people from torturing animals at all costs. All costs. And that’s a destructive path to go down. Entirely necessary, but certainly unhealthy for any sort of relationship.

Toggle: Now, don’t worry, folks, we’re fine. We mention this as part of being open and honest, and because it’s important in understanding where this shitty rabbit hole of animal torture can take you. It’s weird, and it’s foreign, and it’s dangerous. You walk that dark path because you have to, but you walk off it by retaining your honesty and dignity and integrity – even when it’s dark all around. We’re talking about our own hard parts, here, because they happened and because that’s how we make sure we’re not going rotten at the core.

Fausty: At this point, we knew he had to talk to Kero, so we reached out to Akela to see if he had contact information.

Toggle: Akela said something along the lines of, “I don’t know what you could possibly ask him that I couldn’t answer myself.” “His perspective, mostly,” I replied. Later that night, our DMs lit up with reports that Akela was instructing people not to talk to us, that he was pretty pissed about some logs that Shadowwoof sent us. And true, Shadowwoof just kept sending file after file after file.

Fausty: People allegedly affiliated with Akela started asking, “Hey, did someone send you a cache of logs?” “I don’t know how to answer that question,” I said. “Why do you ask?” “Oh, you could potentially be hurting lots of innocent zoos with those logs!” Rest assured, we’re not in the business of hurting innocent zoos, here. But there was another thing that kept coming up — that the logs were being edited, that Akela had spent the last six months editing these logs. We’re pretty sure now that was disinformation, but it struck us as odd. Why the hell were people editing these logs so damn much? And what were they editing out? No way to tell. We know now they seemed to have scrubbed out any mention of Tim in the original leaks. How the hell would you know that, though? And you know what innocent zoo they didn’t edit out before? Kero. So spare me the bullshit about how we’re going to harm innocent zoos. Akela was becoming incredibly suspect, when previously we’d been happy to assume he was clean.

Toggle: Obviously, the immediate course of action is to contact Akela and find out for ourselves if any of this was true or not.

Fausty: Meanwhile, in the background, Zooier Than Thou was being DDOS’d, specifically the second episode which is on a different server. Wasn’t actually very effective, but noteworthy. I mean… there’s been this sort of low-level background noise of pathetic skiddie stuff poking at our stuff since a few days after the podcast aired. You know what pisses me off about it? It’s the kindergarten-level competence it exhibits. That’s fucking insulting. I’m insulted by that.

Toggle: Fausty gets insulted by… unexpected things, sometimes. Call him a paranoid, obnoxious, clueless piece of shit and he’s likely to cheerfully agree. Point a twitter botnet at the CSA account to create fake traffic stats (which I have no idea the idea behind that), and he’s livid. A TWITTER BOTNET?

Fausty: My favourite dynamic in this has been people contacting me to scream that I’m ignorant, incompetent, and I’m doing this all wrong. I agree, basically – doing the best I can, but could be wrong and hell I don’t remember taking a class at MBA school on how to take down animal torture cults, sorry. And I ask what I should be doing to be less ignorant, more effective, less incompetent. And it’s either “nothing, it’s all being taken care of, these aren’t the torturers you’re looking for” which sure Obi-Wan, nobody wants your cheesy rehash of Joseph Campbell’s mythological ethnography, or it’s “fuck you Fausty.” Which I don’t think is a promise for future sex, so unfortunately mostly it seems to mean toys have been taken and someone’s going home. Not once – not once – has someone said “here’s how to stop being a dumb fuck and make this really work.” Not. Fucking Once.

Toggle: Ease down, big fella… maybe they’ll just hurl ugly insults at you next, and you can relax. Anyway, next I messaged Akela at length, saying, “Hey, why are you telling people not to talk to us? Here’s what we think is going on, and we’re trying to just be perfectly honest in our approach in this. Everyone who we’ve talked to so far puts you right in the middle of this, so just talk to us yourself and help us figure out what’s really going on.” And the first thing he says in reply: “So you figured out Tim is Rainstirs. I thought Fausty had taken care of him. Not so easy, is it?” Which… wow, OK. “And then he says, “Look, I’ve been watching you guys from the beginning. So you contact me now, why, because you think you have leverage? You don’t.”

Fausty: Leverage!

Toggle: Akela goes on to tell us he’s got the dox on Shadow, and that he’s gonna have a hard time for leaking documents tied to a federal investigation. He mentions something in describing what’s been going on that puts Fausty on notice. He says that Homeland Security is involved due to cross state lines pedophilia and child trafficking.

Fausty: (please look at this section and clean up) Now, I’ve spent about six years of my life in federal prison, and there’s not much to do in prison except for read and talk to people. I met a number of pedophiles behind bars, and I studied a good bit of law. I’ve looked into a lot of cases involving pedophilia, and all that studying suggests that Homeland Security has nothing to do with this stuff. Moreover, though, that’s exactly what the second person I was talking to said when I was talking to Tim. Given the exact phrasing, it seemed evident that Akela was the second person I was talking to. Paranoia? Maybe, but it lined up.

Toggle: Akela basically said we didn’t know what the hell was going on, he’s been working on it for the past six months and we just didn’t know what work he’d been doing, we were being stupid and reckless, sure. These things mostly checked out. We wouldn’t have contacted him in the first place if these things weren’t true. He also made sure to tell us he wasn’t afraid of us, though we weren’t really coming from a place of intimidation, just of trying to figure out what the hell was going on. We were hoping we could get a hold of what exactly was misinformation and what was legit. Pretty much everyone we talked to said they were buddy-buddy with Akela, but also afraid of Akela. It was kind of hard for us to believe he was clean in all this, especially with Fausty being pretty certain he was that second person in the chat with Tim. Akela also dropped another interesting piece of information here: that Fausty’s friend EQ was somehow involved, that he was a ring leader in the whole thing.

Fausty: We’d seen EQ’s name before mentioned. EQ? Equinas? No, not the Equinas we know. Gotta be Equibooru. That makes more sense. I’d asked some other folks, even. “EQ, you know EQ? You think he’s wrapped up in this?” “No, not Equinas. You’ve gotta be thinking of Equibooru.” But no, Akela was pointing at someone I know personally. Now, granted, I hadn’t talked to EQ since maybe 2012. But it does tie into a conversation that one of our listeners had with Akela with regards to me last year. He mentioned me to Akela in the context of the book, and Akela told him that my inner friends circle included zoosadists. News to me, I’ll tell you that! But interestingly, Akela didn’t say which of my friends was a zoosadist. If he were just trying to spread rumors about EQ, why wouldn’t he have mentioned it back then?

Toggle: There were a few details that stood out as troubling in our conversation with Akela. Unfortunately, because these things always happen concurrently, one of my family members ended up in the hospital, and I had to drop out at such a critical time. Akela was not thrilled when I pointed Akela to Doug and signed off for a little while.

Fausty: So the ball was in my court, with regards to Akela, so I called him, and we talked for six hours. (fill in the blanks)

Toggle: By the time I came back, we had our hands on the unedited logs, and we had to kind of decide what the hell to do with them. Akela was a little difficult to press for more information, and several other people we were talking to were acting a little strange, like there was some kind of gag order with regards to some of the questions we were asking. Here, unfortunately, there are details we really need to leave out, even though it’s super critical into why we chose to release the logs, but what we eventually came to realize is that pretty much everyone we talked to were under duress, and there was something they were trying to get us to do but they couldn’t tell us. Because their accounts were all being watched. We knew for a fact Akela was logged in and watching other people’s accounts. And we knew that he had leverage on other people. And we suspected someone had leverage on him, too. We were also certain that people who contacted us and tried to misdirect us were very adamant that we not release the logs for one reason or another. We decided that the expedient release of the logs may help relieve some of the pressure.

Fausty: But this was not before looking over the logs and making sure what we had was as viable as possible. The logs had been formatted, so they weren’t the original telegram format. Not ideal. And they were organized by Akela, who ultimately decided how the information should be presented. Not ideal. There was one folder I decided to redact, helpfully labelled Kero, because of the stuff we knew — and didn’t know — about Kero. The other folder I worried over for a long time was Equinas. Akela had included it, but apart from a couple of notable things, there wasn’t really a lot in them that was damning. I spent several hours grilling our contacts about him. How was he connected? Every one of them said, “Oh, yeah, he’s definitely into hardzoo.” But there wasn’t a lot more most of them could say. Akela was the most insistent, and had the most information, but couldn’t provide proof, and said there would never be any proof. “I can’t use any of this,” I told him. “Give me something I can use.” Any time I tried to pressure him into saying more, he’d say, “I’ve told you all that I can tell you.” Meaning, there’s more, but he wasn’t at liberty to tell. Wonder why, eh? One big strike against EQ was his confirmed association with Tim — Rainstirs — and his unblinking interaction with zoosadism in the logs. There was also the matter of Derby. I trusted EQ enough to give him a dog named Derby. Two weeks later, I get a call from EQ like, “Hey, I’m sorry to tell you this, but Derby’s dead. Hit by a car.” “Oh, my god, did you take her to the vet?” “What? No, she’s dead.” “Wow, well, how are you holding up?” “Me? I’m fine. What do you mean?” I chocked it up to shock at the time, but there was something that never quite sat right about that conversation with me, and now, with these accusations, and knowing EQ was friends with Tim at this time, Derby’s death seemed a lot less like an accident. In the end, I decided to leave the folder alone, and that wasn’t a decision I made lightly. I also looked over the logs and thought, “You know, this could all be fake, or it could be heavily edited. There’s really no way to know.” Well, we were able to confirm the authenticity of at least some of the logs — including EQ’s, after contacting him directly. There were a lot of non-ideal things happening here, including the pressure to release these logs as soon as possible. But we didn’t release them without careful consideration.

Toggle: And then there they were. We created several redundancies, pulled in contacts from the intelligence community, pulled in Anons — not the 4chan turds playing sociopath online, real Anons — and got law enforcement officers on the case. After they were released, informants came forward to help us identify people in the logs, and we’re actively tying user names to identities. Also, Fausty is on twitter acting like an absolute, Grade-A asshole.

Fausty: True. If you’ve only been watching this unfold on twitter, I can understand how you’d look at this and say, “Wow, that reckless motherfucker is grandstanding and trying to ride on the back of this to…” I don’t actually know how doing this helps my popularity in any way. Doesn’t matter. That’s not actually the point. I want these torturers to know that we have their number. I want them to be scared. I want them to scrub their chat logs and put their severed puppy ears through the shredder and clean the blood from the bedroom floor. Because every second they’re running scared, looking behind their backs, trying to clean up the evidence, they’re not torturing and killing animals. Maybe that’s a shitty tactic, but it buys us time where we know Tim isn’t splitting puppies open because he’s too busy hiding. And with EQ, always careful, never leaving behind a trace, confident that he can’t get caught, we want to send a message to those who think they’re too smart to get in trouble that we’ve got their number, too. The heat is on, and we want you to feel it. As long as these scumbags feel safe, they’re going to keep torturing animals, and fuck letting them feel so complacent. You think you can actually hide? You think these guys won’t start talking the second law enforcement puts the screws to them? Hope you haven’t been hanging out with Tim, because I guarantee he’s gonna squeal.

Toggle: And if you’re thinking, “Oh, maybe I’ll just make sure Tim can’t talk for good,” well, now you’re getting sloppy. Turns out the law is a bit more stringent when it comes to murdering humans. Maybe you think you can get away with it. Is that worth that calculated risk? They’re gonna catch you eventually, and then you’ve got first degree murder on your rap sheet. No matter how you play this, you’re fucked. So tighten up your opsec, go underground, cancel your meet-ups and take down your torture porn servers. Feel free to delay the inevitable, but you’d better not fuck up. One slip up, one stray puppy limb unchecked, and you’re gonna get what you deserve. Every time you get the urge, I want you to think to yourself, “Is someone watching me right now? Did Fausty send a drone over to my barn and set up surveillance cameras?”

Fausty: I’ve actually priced this out. If you’re not legitimately afraid of that possibility, you’re crazy.

Toggle: Rest assured, it’s not just a rat and a dog poking at this anymore. And it’s not just the zoo community. And it’s not furries, fuck no. This is so much bigger. This is US intelligence, this is US law enforcement, this is the full brunt of the internet’s top hackers, and they’re about to all drop on your head.

Fausty: A side note for those of you worrying right now because you were being groomed into this monstrous shit: we’re not after you. You’re victims in this. If you haven’t actually hurt an animal, you’re a bit too small fry for our investigation. But god help you if you ever do hurt an animal. We said this to so many people throughout this process: This is not a game. This is life and death. We’re risking our lives to save the lives of our four-legged friends.

Toggle: And let me also add one more thing: we truly love you for listening to our podcast. But this isn’t about scoring brownie points and clout. We don’t give a shit about whether this makes us look good or bad, or whether we have more followers or subscribers — except for how that effects the reach of this information. All of that stuff is trivial. I’ll say it again. This isn’t a game. This is life and death. This is the right thing to do, no matter the personal consequences are. And hey, if we’re doing this all wrong, we’re happy to hear suggestions on how to do this right, as long as those suggestions don’t include, “Don’t do anything. Just leave this alone and let someone else take care of it.” Sure, you didn’t know this, but that’s essentially what every disinformant that contacted us to misdirect us told us to do, including Rainstirs himself. It’s not an option. Help us do this work better, not pawn it off on someone else.

Fausty: Let me also address another false concern, that releasing this information somehow hinders law enforcement in nailing these guys. Listen, we’re actively talking with law enforcement officials right now, and not one, not one of them has told us, “Hey, guys, you really need to take this stuff down because it’s going to ruin our investigation.” Zero. So don’t give us that bullshit.

Toggle: Another thing you don’t know is how much outside, non-zoo help we were able to get by releasing these logs. People care about protecting animals, and you can’t really imagine this kind of stuff exists without reading these logs for yourself. Everyone I’ve showed these logs to in my non-zoo life has said, “Holy shit, how the fuck can I help?” The natural reaction is to help take these guys down. We would love for our listeners to help in any way that they can.

Fausty: This is still ongoing, but this is hopefully the last time we have to talk at length about it on the podcast.

Toggle: Our next episode will return to our more whimsical format, because being serious zoo all the damn time is fucking exhausting. Sorry to those who asked us not to do comedy anymore. We’ve already written out the sketches.

Fausty: Thanks for sticking with us through this trying time. Be nice to each other. It’s the sexiest, zooiest thing you can do.

Toggle: Never forget to stay defiant, fellow zoos! We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon!

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Concept: Fausty

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Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.


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Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 



(The Zooier Than Thou podcast contains mature content and language, and may not be appropriate for younger audiences. Thanks for understanding.)

Fausty: Hello, friends and colleagues, and welcome to another episode of Zooier Than Thou. I’m internationally-recognized mongler of frisky furry fellas, Fausty…

Toggle: And I’m Toggle!

Fausty: And we’re here to chaperone this evening’s Zooier Than Thou adventure.

Toggle: I have to say, it’s a Good Friday to be a zoo. We’ve got some good news from the podcasting world.

Fausty: As our listeners know all too well, there’s just kazillions of other zoo podcasts out there. Quadzillions. So rather than competing with such well-established resources, we’re more of a newcomer doing what we can to lift up the whole big basket of zooey ‘casts out there. So here’s a little bit of news to that end.

Toggle:As you may remember, the widely-beloved “Zootopia” podcast – a heavy-hitter in the zoo podcast world – was taken down after they received a cease and desist letter from Disney.

Fausty: Really a shame, it’s one of the best-of-breed and stands out even amidst the ocean of alternatives.

Toggle: Well, now they’re back after rebranding themselves as Zoo Utopia, and you can check out their new website at

Fausty: We really should have gotten a dot dog domain. I’m not very good with computers, but we could have done that… couldn’t we?

Toggle: Yeah, but all the good ones are already taken by other zoo podcasts.

Fausty: Ah, yeah, that’s right.

Toggle: And folks – don’t let the cluttered zoo landscape put you off. There’s always room for more, so if you’re listening and feel inspired to do your own zooey podcast, drop us a note and we’ll be happy to help you get set up and running with the kit needed to make it happen. The more, the merrier!

Fausty: All joking aside for a moment, we know some listeners have really creative new ideas for zooey podcasts of your own. Don’t let technical hurdles hold you back, ok? We can help you with your own setup, do some production assistance behind the scenes, or just share advice and ideas…

Toggle: Yep. And once you get up and running, you’ll be pleasantly surprised how easy the whole process is. Look… if two unrepentant mongers like Fausty and I can do it, literally anyone can. I mean, Fausty can’t even get his phone to work most of the time – and here he is, on a podcast! That’s how easy it is: even a Fausty can do it.

Fausty: Yeah yeah, I mean it’s not like I’m some techno-geek-whatever, well… moving on, let’s jump right into our mailbag. Last episode, we asked listeners to weigh in on BeastForum, and while we got a number of e-mails about the show, only one person had anything to say about the forum. Maybe that’s for the best.

Toggle: Not feeling inspired to dig deeper into the beastforum quagmire, Fausty?

Fausty: Way back when, one of their admins bragged to me about how they would inflate their “thread views” counts arbitrarily to make the site look way more popular than it was – they had built a custom module to allow them to set view counts, point-and-click. Remember how they used to have all these hundreds-of-thousands-of-views threads?

Toggle: Sure – they had lots of traffic, right? And weren’t some of those thread, ahem, started by you?

Fausty: My old content from waaay back did prove very popular there – but who knows precisely how much, since they were faking their views counts comprehensively on the site. It’s just typical for how shady and fake the whole thing was, underneath.

Toggle: Most zoos seem to be moving on from the beastforum issue by now – though our one listener email is certainly worth sharing before we move on, ourselves.

Fausty: You want to do the honours, Toggle?

Toggle: Sure! This e-mail is from Orca in Oslo. Orca starts out with: “Hey! I really liked your first episode and I’m looking forward to listening to the next ones. Keep up the good work, you may some day make a name for yourself in the plethora of zoo podcasts.”

Fausty: Well we certainly hope so! It’s a stretch, what with all the prestigious competition, but I think we can manage it!

Toggle: Orca continues: “So, I’m a young zoo exclusive who grew up with the Internet, and I actually think Beastforum wasn’t that bad. Sure, there was a lot of shit on it and what the owners did with the content people posted was horrible, but if you sorted everything out, I think you could find really cool people and content. It was the biggest zoo community, and I think it was important to have such a “hub”. It really helped me to discover that I wasn’t the only one, to accept myself as I was and to become proud of my zoosexuality.

“I think Beastforum was an easy to find website that was really good for people discovering themselves like I was, the guides were cool and to be able to read all these people’s experiences was great. Since there’s almost no other website or forum about zoosexuality, I don’t know a place where people like that could go today. To my knowledge, the only things left are an 8ch thread that’s almost only about porn, and somewhat hidden communities on Twitter, Telegram and Discord. It’s not enough in my opinion, and it’s a real problem.

“What do you guys think about it?”

Fausty: Whoo… well Orca makes some great points, and the perspective of younger folks, not grey muzzles like me, is really important here. I get asked this fairly often, in terms of where I’d recommend folks go for a non-evil zoo forum, just a place to hang out with other zoos and… I don’t have anything to recommend, is the long and short of it. There’s a few super-old-school watering holes where oldsters like me hang out and re-hash old debates from the zeta-l days, but those aren’t much use for everyone else are they? So beastforum managed to squat their greedy non-zoo asses right in the middle of our community’s semantic space online, and in doing so became sort of a default stopping-off point. Now that it’s gone… I dunno. Good friends have told me there’s a few forums out there that don’t suck but I just haven’t looked to even form an opinion at this point.

Toggle: So what does come next, I mean in terms of zoo forums online? Isn’t there a real need for a good, safe place that – unlike beastforum – sets a positive tone and isn’t run solely to generate porn content for pay websites and all that? There’s no way I’d ever recommend a chan-site to anyone looking for a positive place to hang out, because… well, chans.

Fausty: Likewise. A decade ago I ran a zoo forum myself – alongside the tracker – and a few things I learned doing that job. One, it’s a lot of hard work, and doing it right isn’t a simple project. Two, keeping abusive content out is actually not very difficult – we had a bright-line standard and members made sure nothing evil was part of our community, period. Three is that it’s truly worth the hard work to provide a good, safe, healthy place for zoos to congregate online. I hope others take up the challenge and fill the post-beastforum gap with a zoo-owned, zoo-run, zoo-centric alternative. It’s sorely needed, as much now as back when I did just that years ago.

Toggle: It’s funny, though. For me, I found BeastForum to be inaccessible as a younger zoophile. As a media person, I’m a Mac user myself—

Fausty: Of course you are, you Mickey Mouse Motherfucker.

Toggle: (laughs) Fuck you, dog-mongler! So, as a Mac user, the whole thing where you had to put together small pieces of video files made them inaccessible, and the fact that you had to pay to access certain things was a barrier as well. I found myself on a different forum called ZoophilesForum, which I thought was much better. I had a similar experience there to Orca’s with BeastForum; finding a community, making friends, and reading about people’s experiences, all without the exploitative nature of non-zoo admins.

Fausty: Well, ZoophilesForum had its own problems, too.

Toggle: Really? I had no idea.

Fausty: It had a bit of a complicated history – doesn’t everything? There were some amazing folks there, genuinely representing the best of our community, on the admin team. There were some personal issues that made it hard for those good folks to carry the admin load, and unfortunately some astonishingly toxic individuals weaseled their way into admin roles. It eventually slowly imploded on itself. Sad story, and sadly not unique. Same thing happened to “Zoophile’s Destiny” and several others along the way.

Toggle: Dang, I didn’t even know that. I was on there, probably, in 2009 or so.

Fausty: I’d say that was probably near its heyday. Still run by good folks, still regularly visited by amazing folks. I’d gladly shout-out the great people who made that community a great place during those years, but security. So I’ll just say thanks to them for all they did, and hope that message comes through to them wherever they are today, loud and clear.

Toggle: Oh, well, no wonder I liked it, then!

Fausty: Thanks a ton for that e-mail, Orca. We loved hearing about your positive experiences in an otherwise dark place on the internet. And to anyone listening and thinking, “Well, geez, why doesn’t someone just set up a genuinely zoo-positive zoo forum and do it the right way” – good on you! If we – and I personally – can help in any way, we’ll absolutely do so. Go get ‘em, tiger – don’t let anyone tell you it’s not possible, because it absolutely is.

Toggle: We got one more great e-mail we’d really love to share, and it’s a doozy! We’re probably going to be editing this one because it’s so long you’d think Fausty wrote it.

Fausty: Now, to be fair, people say they love my writing style.

Toggle: Equal amounts hate your writing style.

Fausty: This is true. Carry on.

Toggle: This letter is from (shouts) LOOOOOOOVE CAAAAAT!

(Love Cat stinger plays)

Toggle: I’m sorry, Love Cat, I’m a huge dork, and I couldn’t resist it. But your letter is wonderful, so let’s dive in. Love Cat writes: “Hey guys, very pleased to hear another zoo podcast from the sea of zoo podcasts we’re all drowning in. Also very much pleased to hear Fausty’s voice, having only just recently become aware of his existence and read through Uniquely Dangerous. Toggle’s voice was a good listen too, and i have to agree it does sound like his balls haven’t dropped, but that makes comments like “fuck ’em!” even more hilarious.”

Fausty: (laughs)

Toggle: Oh, my god.

Fausty: Someday, you and those balls are gonna get some space between the two of you! One of these years. Just keep the faith, buddy. It’ll happen.

Toggle: Yeah, well, at least my voice is not fake! I don’t have to go in and adjust my voice just so people can stand to listen to it!

Fausty: You’re the one that gave me this horrible, fake voice, so who’s to blame for that, right?

Toggle: (laughs)

Fausty: Back to the letter.

Toggle: Yes. Love Cat continues: “I can’t say I’m super delighted about the whole Exposure Solution thing – I was one of those who was taken in by it hook, line, and sinker, and went through a week of anxiety over it. i honestly thought it was fucking Pepe again, and had visions of more jailings and suicides in my head. I realize that you had good intentions in doing that, but the thought of any of the new zoo friends I’ve finally made being harmed by these psychopaths who get off on ruining people’s lives is intolerable to me – only to find out that it was you putting out a strategic hoax… well, it’s a bit of a mindfuck man. I’m trying to learn good lessons from it – such as that you yourself have survived pain, trauma, sabotaged life goals etc. directly consequent to your being outed against your will, and that despite it all you sound undefeated – but it still seems like a harder lesson than was maybe necessary.”

Fausty Hmm..

Toggle: Those pauses are for you to comment.

Fausty I thought those pauses were just for you gather your majestic voice for the next paragraph.

Toggle: When you see a pause in the script, that’s for you to comment.

Fausty: What I mean, what can I really say to that?

Toggle: Man? I mean, we we do try our best to make sure that there were no zoos that thought it was actually about them. So like we tried to say, you know, like, we were very conscious of the idea that, Oh, we don’t really want to scare zoos, but we want them to kind of pay attention. So we were like, Okay, well, it’s going to be a celebrity. We’ll out a celebrity that we know, zoos think that it’s them. But maybe that wasn’t entirely apparent. And

Fausty: There are apparently at least a couple of Zoos who are convinced they are celebrities, and that they were being targeted. And I do feel bad for that. Because the idea of flagging celebrity was to make sure nobody was worried. And if we failed in doing that, that was our mistake. And we do apologize for that.

Toggle: Yeah, honestly we apologize for any stress we caused anyone during that, so…

Fausty: There’s been quite a bit of discussion and debate about the exposed solution on Twitter, and I would encourage anybody who thinks we were particularly stupid or irresponsible in doing that, to share those ideas publicly, because it’s been a really useful discussion to have.

Toggle: And, you know, if you felt like this was a good idea that it was important. Equally, your opinion is also valid. We’ve gotten a little bit of both. So you know, it’s something worth talking about.

Fausty: Fair enough. It was an interesting mix of strong reactions either way, which maybe says that there was a whole lot of important issue underlying that particular approach to launching the podcast.

Toggle: In fact, actually, this next part of the letter talks about it some.

Fausty: Very good.

Toggle: “In any case, it did cause me to reevaluate how much power I’ve let this boogie man have over me. And that despite whatever unavoidable consequences being outed can have, the worst consequence would be to allow the ruination of my spirit, which is what they really want to do. I know that psychopaths want to corrupt and destroy the innermost core of a person, that’s what really gets them off. And that to deny them that satisfaction is ultimately what I must do. And in that respect, Fausty, you are a hero to me. That you have lived through nightmarish experiences and not caved, that you have stayed true to yourself in the face of unreasonable hatred, smear campaigns, utter injustice, I can’t tell you what an inspiration and encouragement I find in that. Stay Defiant. I get it.”

Fausty: I appreciate the thought, though, absolutely recoil from the concept of any heroism here at all, I look back at these years covered in that book. And I see the 10,000 terrible mistakes I made that I wish I could go back and do better. So thank you for the gracious positive feedback, I have to say for myself, I know that it could have been done so much better. And I I look forward to people smarter than me doing better than me, and showing the right way to do it in the future.

Toggle: Right. But I think we get to a core thing here. And that is that, you know, we shouldn’t be ashamed, we shouldn’t be scared. We shouldn’t be made to feel less than human, by people who want us to feel less than human. I think it’s interesting that when we did this, we kind of provided a safer way of helping people maybe come to that realization that, you know, why? Why would I be scared of this? Why do these people have so much power over me?

Fausty: Though it was completely unintended, I look back on it, and I wonder now if some zoos who have always felt themselves to be exempt from risk or fear of outing felt that they were suddenly at risk and got a taste of what that feeling is, that was not what we were trying to do. But I do look back and some of the people that reacted most aggressively I think have been the ones who have bragged sometimes about, I’ll never get outed, I’m way too smart for that. That’s only stupid people that get outed and some of those people seem like they were the ones who got angry. And I wonder if it’s not really their fear talking at that point.

Toggle: Right. At any rate, the idea was not to cause anyone stress. But to kind of highlight the absurdity of that kind of dialogue that takes place online with around these people.

Fausty: We we reached for the most hyperbolic, unbelievable, totally fantastical language in writing those tweets. And a scary and interesting part of the reaction is that no matter how hard we tried to make them sound overblown, people believe they could be true. And that says a lot about how weird this stuff can really get.

Toggle: Right. And you know, there’s a point where when you’re dealing with zealots, parody starts looking like the real thing. And that’s just something that happens when you’re dealing with something, so over blown. so over the top, so outrageous that it’s it’s hard to parody because you just look like you’re just doing it. You look like…

Fausty: We tried. We tried to parody the best we possibly could. And to a degree, I think we have to say that we failed in our efforts to parody despite those extraordinary attempts. And that has been a learning lesson. No question.

Toggle: Let’s go ahead and move on. “As for Zooier Than Thou, I’ll give you my honest feedback. In short, I both like it and don’t like it. That is I’m not a fan of sketches. And even though I did find some laughs in it, most of the humor just didn’t work for me. I like very much when you and Toggle just talk and I hope that the Straight Talk segments of the podcast will grow to be the bulk of it. Because to me, that’s where the main value is.” You know, Fausty and I, we talk about the balance there a lot between the talk and the skits. And you know, a lot of these skits are just based on the fallout of random conversations we have. You know, when we brave the Cranbury traffic and grab a bite to eat to do some planning, some of these things just sort of fall out of those conversations, because we think they’re really funny. But —

Fausty: That’s true.

Toggle: — we have a particularly stupid sense of humor. So I guess, you know, that’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

Fausty: I think, even though our humor is far from perfect, and far from professional, there is a particular branch of Zoo humor that I’ve always appreciated myself. And I hope that we can maybe inspire those who are better at humor than we are to participate in future episodes and show us the right way to do it.

Toggle: Oh, yeah, and we definitely, hopefully are going to expand and get some more ideas. We want to — we want to hear your ideas. So this isn’t just, you know, Toggle and Fausty jerking off online. Talking about–

Fausty: That’s actually a paid channel. If you’re interested in the paid channel, we’ll go ahead and swap you over there. I mean, only one of us has, you know, balls.

Toggle: Oh my god.

Fausty: So it’s really pretty clear who people are paying to see I’m just saying —

Toggle: Look, rats, rats just have squeaky voices, we just have them. But if you ever seen a rat, you know our balls are just massive. Massive balls, squeaky voices. That’s how it works.

Fausty: Wanna know something? I’ve never known a stallion who had to tell people he had massive balls. It’s weird. Nobody ever had to say that.

Toggle: I’ve never had to defend my balls before! But they are under attack!

Fausty: Well it’s, you don’t really have them.

Toggle: Oh my God.

Fausty: I mean, someday you will though just keep the faith!

Toggle: One day I’ll be a real… Rat.

Fausty: Whatever you are. Anyway,

Toggle: So Love Cat continues: “I guess what would appeal to me the most is to hear about the lives and thoughts of others zoos, to paint a picture of us as complete people who have a right to exist and value to bring to the table. I think we can accomplish those goals by simply presenting ourselves as we are. I think that’s where you’re coming from. However you conduct your podcast, I’m just glad that it exists. And I’m certainly excited to see where you take it. I think that’s going to do it for now. Much love y’all. Love Cat.”

Fausty: Genuinely, thank you so much for an in depth email and for your in depth critique of the podcast so far.

Toggle: It was really a pleasure to read, and I only wish we could have fit more of it on the show. Stay defiant, Love Cat!

Fausty: Up next, a word from our sponsors, followed by Zoo News!

Toggle: Catch you on the other side, fellow zoos!

3. This week’s sponsors

Announcer: This week’s podcast is sponsored by:

Lovin’ Lucy’s Luscious Lube – Strong enough for a stallion, but made for a mare!

And also by:

Whatever project Fausty has going right now. Fausty: he has too many projects going right now.

And finally:

Looney Tunes, because Disney won’t return our calls. Come back to us Disney! We’ll never wrong you again! You had so much money!

4. Betty’s Bestiality Brothel

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5. Zoo News – Weighty Matters

Toggle: Alright, let’s not waste any more time and jump right into it. Today’s topic is a real doozy. The mere mention of our subject’s name is enough to ruffle feathers among zoos and non-zoos alike. I was wary of broaching this subject because of the sheer amount of knee-jerk vitriol it can inspire, but there are certain things we feel need to be discussed, so we’re exhuming this dead dog again. I’m talking, of course, about last fall’s furry-world zoosadism shitstorm and the fallout it generated.

Fausty: For those of you who are fortunate enough to live under a rock, last autumn, there was a high-profile disclosure of purported evidence of seriously evil behavior by some individuals in the furry fandom. Specifically, claims were made of a massive “zoosadism ring” that had been exposed through this and, at least initially, the claim was that this disclosure would result in a widespread “cleansing” of such horrific individuals from the furry fandom.

Toggle: You’re using what I’d say is very… careful language in how you describe this, Fausty – language that’s not the same as what most people used back then as it was all exploding onto the zoo twitter scene.

Fausty: Fair enough. Conventionally, this would be identified as the “Kero incident” or the “zoosadism leaks” – and both of those titles are bullshit. First, connecting this all to Kero, who, as I understand it, is a high-profile furry, is absolutely unfair. Two, these aren’t “leaks” because there’s no way to confirm the authenticity of what’s been released – the majority of which is just text that’s claimed to be Telegram chat logs. And, unfortunately, some people involved in hyping this up last fall were caught circulating fake and even malware-laden documents during these “leaks”… so there’s no way to know what’s real and what’s fake, text-wise. So it’s important to be clear about what we know is real – basically some pictures and video files – and what’s totally uncertain, namely all the “chat logs” that got circulated at the time.

Toggle: The leaks caused a flood of anti-zoo sentiment in a typically zoo-friendly fandom, and are a primary source of why I originally left Twitter earlier this year. So let’s break down what happened, piece by piece. A zoo called Akela released the original accusations on Twitter, tagging several prominent furries and some known anti-zoo groups to alert them that he had uncovered zoosadists hiding in the furry community, and he felt compelled to call them out. He released a slew of allegedly incriminating telegram chat logs with some very alarming and graphic content, featuring conversations and some images revolving around the torture and rape of animals. Kero was called out in all this, although it now seems clear that no real video or picture evidence ever existed implicating him in actual zoosadist activity.

Fausty: I’d like to step back and be clear on this. Zoosadism is the torture of other beings in order to derive pleasure from the pain they experience. This is one of the most horrible, most evil, most fucking disgusting things human beings can do. There is no clinical or documented connection between zoosadism – which resolves around pain and misery and is not “sexual” in any meaningful sense – and zoophilia, which is a sexual orientation and involves reciprocal intimacy between adults who chose to engage in sexual relations with each other.

Toggle: This is a topic you are really passionate about, Fausty…?

Fausty: Absolutely. As I said, I used to run a high-profile, high-traffic zoo forum and tracker, for years. And during that time we had two incidents involving zoosadists – in both cases I helped track down and neutralize those individuals to the best of my ability, alongside a number of other very courageous and utterly unrelenting zoo colleagues. And what I saw during those episode was… beyond words to describe. It is fucking disgusting, it’s… I’d do most anything to stop anyone who does these things, anything. So I know about such “investigations” firsthand, I know what goes into actually acting to stop such monsters from doing what they do… and I also know how much bullshit those monsters can and will throw up to try to avoid accountability. I’ve been there, done that, seen it, have the scars for life from it, and would absolutely do it again if needed.

Toggle: Meanwhile, last fall, when these accusations dropped, it quickly got tangled up with anti-zoo bigotry on Twitter and elsewhere, and it became almost impossible to disentangle the actual zoosadism claims from broader efforts to “out” zoos and, even worse, to intentionally confuse zoos with zoosadists, across the board. Mix in all the excitement of full-bore furry fandom drama, and… yeah. An ugly, confused, angry, unstable mess.

Fausty: Zoophiles were quick to denounce these acts, and rightfully so. It truly goes without saying – and despite that, of course, we all said it. it’s an ugly truth that zoosadists will occasionally put on the guise of being zoos – just like the Randall “zoobuster” Pepe example from the old days – so they can try to blend into our community and thus be harder to pinpoint and neutralize. Obviously, that’s a fucking stupid move on their part – there’s nobody, absolutely nobody, who hates zoosadists more than zoophiles. Nobody. So when such monsters pop up in our world, they’re swiftly spotlighted and dealt with – usually quietly, with no big public fanfare, and solely with the aim of ensuring they don’t ever hurt anyone again.

Toggle: Getting back to Kero, he was quick to deny the allegations he faced last fall, and perhaps he was a bit too quick. It would be days before mainstream furry outlets picked up on the logs and spread the information, and with Kero already responding, it set him up as a likely target. What followed was both incredibly interesting and painfully distressing. Accusations began piling up. There were reports that there was video of Kero fucking a dead animal, reports that there was evidence that Kero had engaged in some kind of abuse of a living animal. People claiming to have poured over the leaks extensively pointed the finger at Kero as the primary culprit. Personally, I knew I couldn’t stomach the contents of the leaks, so I didn’t look. But I felt uncomfortable weighing in on something I wasn’t willing to put the research into. Still, I assumed that my fellow zoos were telling the truth. He must have done something wrong to warrant all this hatred. I stayed silent.

Fausty: About this time, the DMs started flooding into both my personal account and to the CSA twitter account, calling on me to publicly denounce Kero as a zoosadist. I mean, this was straight-up “if you don’t denounce Kero right now as a zoosadist, then you’re a zoosadism enabler and just as guilty as he is” level pressure. To which I replied, characteristically, that people making such demands on me or anyone else could go fuck themselves. Because obviously I’m not denouncing anyone without actual evidence they did something – not just “someone said someone else said they heard that some other guy heard that” kindergarten bullshit. I asked to see the evidence, for these accusers to point to images or videos. If the evidence existed, make it public. Not “chat logs” which are so trivially easy to fake. And many, many people absolutely assured me that such evidence – pictures and video – existed. People would say, “If you dig deep enough, you’ll see it.” I got sent links to all sorts of bloated, garbage-filled archives… some of which showed strong indications of carrying malware in them. Months of this, of me publicly asking for actual evidence – privately or publicly – and many people who should and did know better promising the evidence was “out there somewhere”… What did surface is a video, less than a minute long, of a dog walking around with an erection. A dog. With a boner. Males get erections, it’s quite normal and healthy – it’s no “zoosadism” or abuse or whatever. It’s a fucking boner. It wasn’t even zooish! So I was really, really suspicious outright that this was a faked-up hit job targeting Kero for totally political reasons, and had zero to do with “zoosadism” or with protecting anyone from harm.

Toggle: I think it’s fair to give a little bit of background here. Fausty has himself been the subject of public witch hunts before. Famously, he was arrested for running a “bestiality farm” in a small town in Washington…

Fausty: Ha, hold up – even that’s not true! I was actually arrested for violating the “spirit of supervised release” (it’s a long story, read Uniquely Dangerous if you’re interested) – nobody in any legal papers ever made any claims about me running anything. All that – the “bestiality farm” – was made up by bigots and journalists.

Toggle: Ok, interesting correction. From there, news media jumped on the story, reporting about Vaseline-slathered mice used for “felching,” reportedly the act of shoving rodents up your ass…

Fausty: Oh indeed! That’s Laura “felcher” Clark who imagined this concept of “felching” (look there’s actually something called felching – it has nothing to do with mice – and if you’re curious, and a bit kinky, you’ll likely already know what felching actually is…)

Toggle: Oh, yes. I’ll felch you any time you want, Fausty.

Fausty: Hahaha, OK, not my thing, but hey, that’s cool. So Laura Clark claimed to be an expert on the topic. An expert. On the topic of a practice – felching – that’s totally different from what she imagined it to be.

Toggle: Right, so here’s the problem: none of it was true. There were mice, but there was no Vaseline, as evidenced by photographs taken at the scene. There was a zoophile living with animals, but there was no animal sex tourism. Here’s a fact: bestiality farms don’t exist, and “gerbiling,” the correct term for the act described, has never been medically documented, not even once. It’s a pure urban legend, and is listed as such on Snopes. It’s imaginary. So, last fall you’ve got people trying to convince someone – Fausty – who has gone through all this, himself, a public smear campaign… people demanding that he participate in exactly the same kind of bullshit targeting someone else.

Fausty: I mentioned this before, but when it comes to my history, all of this is excruciatingly documented in the book Uniquely Dangerous, if you’re interested in the specifics. Needless to say, I’m a bit of a skeptic when it comes to the “everyone says this guy did this stuff but there’s no actual evidence and if you don’t agree then we’ll smear you just like him” kind of dynamic… just a little bit.

Toggle: As the story spun out of control, new, wild accusations began being spread around. When I heard that Kero had killed his dog, it gave me pause; that was never mentioned originally, and killing a female dog by penetrating her really seemed… well, not impossible but perhaps a bit far fetched. I knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a guy, and I asked them to check on that for me. Word came back that Kero’s dog died in a fight with a neighbor dog, and when I mentioned this online, people immediately jumped on me. “How dare you defend Kero! Don’t you know he did this and this?” “I’m not defending Kero,” I replied. “But you can’t just say things that aren’t true. This one thing is definitively not true.”

Fausty: Oh geez, I forgot about that whole side of things. Yes, there was a phase when the narrative jumped to “Kero fucked his dog to death.” Which… really? Of course, zero evidence. Then was it that his dog died of liver disease because he had too many orgasms or… I don’t even remember the absurd permutations. And it was all totally fake, obviously. Apparently a dog did die – that’s tragic, undoubtedly – of nothing related in any way to sex or boners or fucking or furries or anything whatsoever related to the Telegram disclosures.

Toggle: Now, Fausty, off-hand, can you name anyone else’s name who was leaked in the zoosadist leaks?

Fausty: I know one other name, but then again I’ve spent many hours on this whole ugly situation. And I don’t even know a real-life name, just a nickname apparently present in these disclosures.

Toggle: That’s SnakeThing, right? Because the telegram logs all linked back to that guy.

Fausty: Right.

Toggle: I’m sure there are a few people who are more intimately familiar with some of the other names that got dropped, but one thing is definitely for sure: no one else involved in the leaks received the time and attention that Kero got.

Fausty: Oh it’s not even close! The online drama queens – especially the creepy-assed closet zoo who runs the “ZSIS” twitter account – went on and on and ON about Kero… and minor mentions of maybe some others.

Toggle: And what about anyone else? There were more than three people in those leaks, weren’t there?

Fausty: That’s what I’m led to believe. A few of the e-mails we got from people during the Hate Party campaign referenced telegram chats involving SnakeThing in their indictments, indicating that there were more people, but no one heard about them. All that noise, all that hype, all those big claims about some alleged zoo allegedly “infiltrating” a zoosadism ring, and it boils down to maybe three names, and, umm… crickets. That’s it. So the question becomes: Why?

Toggle: It becomes important to define what success looks like when you’re entering a project like this. If you’re going to doxx zoosadists, what is the end goal? What do you want to accomplish?

Fausty: I’ve already disclosed my own history of working with groups to take down zoosadists in the past. For us, it wasn’t about getting lauded, or getting people arrested, or getting people ostracized from the community. For us, success was making sure these people could never hurt another animal ever again. Short of that goal, we deemed our efforts a failure. That’s pretty fucking simple, isn’t it? The reason you go after zoosadist isn’t because they “make us look bad” or because it’s fun or because you don’t want them bringing heat on you by being around. You do it because they are monsters and hurt others for pleasure. Damn, that’s so damned clear!

Toggle: And as animal lovers, that really does seem like the reasonable benchmark for the success of a project like this.

Fausty: So using that as a benchmark, let’s take a look at these zoosadist leaks and determine how successful they were. Because some of the zoos who were really, really close to all this – they claim they were “infiltrating” all this zoosadist talk, but I have my concerns about how they ended up so tangled up in all this as zoos because, me personally, I never seem to get tangled up with zoosadists, you know? – a few of those zoos have claimed great success in all this. And I’m really left thinking that’s a crock of shit. When I went after monsters like this, the folks I worked with didn’t infiltrate anything. We identified the monster in question, confirmed the actions really did occur, and then we did all we could to stop them from doing it any more. Done. This isn’t a fucking spy movie, you know? This is real life.

Toggle: One obvious highlight is that two of these abusers were arrested. Levi Dane Simmons, otherwise known as SnakeThing, and Marrero Pernas, who was arrested in Cuba.

Fausty: There are a few problems with considering these wins, however. For me, I haven’t seen evidence that Levi Dane Simmons is actually SnakeThing and not some random newspaper clipping about animal abuse that was used to say, “Look! We did it!” Further, newspapers are not a good source for zoo-related news. And the people who claim that they can vouch for the truth of that have also admitted to me that they’ve lied about other parts of this, quite publicly and loudly, along the way. So I can’t really trust them in good conscience. So maybe that’s Snakething and maybe not – but because of the lying and bullshit smeared all over this mess, it’s by now basically impossible to figure out the truth.

Toggle: Well, now, Fausty, let’s give that the benefit of the doubt. Your life experiences tend to lead toward suspicion to that end, but we’re talking about zoophiles who led the charge on this project.

Fausty: Well… not so fast. Let’s not forget the deeply disturbing fact that several of the zoos involved in this shameful mess intentionally outed someone who they identify as a zoo because, it’s claimed, they “had do” in order to do something something. It’s all secret, can’t tell anyone, so I’m told… but the admission has been made that at least one zoo was intentionally outed. By other zoos. And, to me, that’s way over a red line. Way over. And those who have admitted to doing this have offered zero defense other than “we had to, because reasons.” Which is hard to swallow, given that they have admitted to lying about other parts of this. And when we get to zoos outing zoos… well, we’re right back to Randy Pepe and the suicides and murdered families that come from outing zoos and, nope, I’m not on page with that.

Toggle: Aside from that, and assuming that these two arrests are legitimately tied directly to the zoosadist links, what are the issues?

Fausty: The obvious issue – even if we make those generous assumptions – is in the follow-up: what happens after these people are arrested? For all we know, these folks are out on bail, still abusing animals. Not only that, but the punishment for animal abuse – real abuse, involving real death or pain or suffering to nonhumans, not imaginary “moral abuse” or panics involving dogs with boners – in most states? Thirty days in jail, if that. In Cuba? Ha, I’d be surprised if that led to any sort of substantial punishment. Listeners can correct us if we’re wrong on this, but I’m not seeing anyone doing years in prison on any of this – even if they’re convicted, which thus far I’ve not heard any claim that’s happened, or will happen.

Toggle: I’d think that they’d be a bit harsher in Cuba in general.

Fausty: For animal abuse charges? Not a chance. There was that case recently of a couple of shit-stain “kill for fun” hunters who went in the den of a hibernating bear and her cubs and murdered then, laughing the whole way through. That’s flagrantly illegal, and they lied to officers investigating the crime. Nope, no sir, we didn’t kill no mama bear and her cubs – we’re Great White Hunters! Fucking scum got caught on camera doing the murders. Caught. On camera. After lying to cops. And the older shitstain did a few weeks in jail. The younger psychopath? Zero jail time. Slap on the wrist. That’s absolutely typical, absolutely. So, for all the huffing and puffing about Kero that went on for months, there’s been effectively zero in the way of public follow-up regarding these two arrests. The “Investigation Squad” with their kiddie twitter logo and kiddie bragging about their secret decoder ring exploits? They packed up shop and are back playing Pokemon, or whatever – zero interest in things when it comes to actually stopping actual abuse. It was all a public stunt for that whole cadre of creeps. Look: you can’t just congratulate yourself and call it a job well done with an arrest. That’s, at best, a first step. At worst, it’s an irrelevant distraction. These monsters are likely right back at it, or soon to be – and nobody’s following up one bit. So that’s supposed to be “success?” Pardon me whilst I don’t join in with the celebratory blowjobs, sorry.

Toggle: Now, with your zoosadist projects, you didn’t go to the public with your victories, as I recall.

Fausty: This is true. But our investigations weren’t public to begin with. You have to wonder why such a public display would suddenly go quiet when it came to the actual results of their actions. All the hype upfront, zero hype about tangible results. That’s a fucking disgrace, is what it is. This stuff isn’t some twitter game, like the Ice Bucket Challenge for creepy half-closeted basket cases. This is real. Torture is a real horror, and when it really happens it is all of our ethical obligation to stop it! Not to fucking make a cool logo and fucking tweet about it…

Toggle: So, it’s a little early to claim the arrests are a victory. But, at the very least, the leaks managed to stop a high-profile name from gaining social power that would have allowed him to continue abusing animals, right?

Fausty: You’re talking about Kero, right?

Toggle: Indubitably.

Fausty: Well, no. As I’ve hinted at throughout, some of these “infiltrators” admitted to me that there was never any real evidence that Kero is a zoosadist, and that they knew from the very beginning that no such evidence existed, but they actively spread that narrative because, “Oh, if you only knew what I knew, you’d understand why it had to happen.” When it comes to Kero, it looks far more likely to me that what happened is a fairly popular fur got assassinated publicly by others perhaps jealous of his popularity – others who were willing to fatally corrupt an actual investigation into actual horrifically evil actions by totally different people altogether. That’s hardly a “victory for the animals,” is it? Oh and also at least one zoo was intentionally outed by other zoos, for spotty reasons I can’t even guess at because they are secret and also pretty improbable to be honest. So that’s our scorecard: a political hit job, a zoo outed.

Toggle: So after all of the repeated cries for you to publicly denounce Kero, the same people admitted that there was no evidence that Kero had actually committed any animal abuse?

Fausty: Absolutely correct.

Toggle: Going back over the giant public display, I do realize that at the end of it all, people basically started conceding that, “I don’t know what Kero did, but he definitely did it.” Thinking back to all the people who swore up and down that they read those leaks, I recall when someone admitted to me that as far as they could tell, Kero maybe jerked off a dog or made one lick his dick.

Fausty: To my knowledge, that is NOT proved! The one video that ever surface, which allegedly had Kero’s legs in it, didn’t show any of that. It showed a dog with a boner. That doesn’t make Kero a zoo, and doesn’t prove anything other than the fact that male dogs can get boners – unless they are victims of human genital mutilation, that is.

Toggle: Ok, and yet somehow, that alone was enough to justify completely slaughtering this young man in the court of public opinion… and actually what seems to have happened is that he was massacred and blamed for the death of his own dog when in fact he was grieving the loss of that dog as a result of an accident that occurred when he wasn’t even in the same state. And that’s really awful, isn’t it? If that’s how this all plays out, it’s really shameful for all of us that we let this happen.

Fausty: So you ask yourself, “What did this absolute character assassination do in the end?” Well, as far as I can tell, it made for a really good shield for the real abusers to make their getaway. One thing that is characteristic of all sociopathic monsters like zoosadists is their willingness to throw others under the bus to make a clean escape. That I have seen every time I’ve been involved in hunting them down, from Randy Pepe onwards. (Randy was himself an admitted zoosadist – not a zoophile – and wrote an autobiography in which he recounted suffocating his Dobermans as part of his sickening power-warped concept of “sex”). And, yes, it’s clear to me that there was absolutely some smokescreening that happened here, and that it worked. Some monsters got away clean, and they did so at the expense of Kero who was the lightning rod for hatred and abuse. And many, many people – zoos and furries alike – who could and did know better did nothing to stop this from happening. Some, in fact, have a record of perhaps enabling it… intentionally or not.

Toggle: Certainly, very few other names actually entered the public discourse, and undeniably, no name was subject to more consistent vitriol than Kero’s. So what about the other abusers? What happened to the ring of people around SnakeThing, and why has no one been talking about them?

Fausty: In the end, as far as we can ascertain here at Zooier Than Thou, this whole sorry episode has failed to protect nonhumans from being the victim of the monsters on two legs that are zoosadists. By focusing on one person – a scapegoat, easy to target because visible and high-profile (I know how that works) – and willfully creating lies surrounding them, we’ve all played a role in allowing the true monsters to walk away clean, for the most part, so they can continue perpetuating their horrific tortures on other beings in the future.

Toggle: There’s no saving Kero at this point. The damage is done. I’d say he might never recover, only I noticed recently that Monica Lewinski is doing pretty well these days. Still, he will always be Kero the Zoosadist, and this podcast isn’t going to change that. So what can we do?

Fausty: First off, I personally hope that Kero can survive this terrible episode and – whatever his strengths or failings as a person and as a young man in the community – use this experience to become a stronger, wiser, more compassionate man. I hope that he can take what happened to him and make something good of it. It won’t be easy – I of all people know how fucking hard it is – but it is possible and it is absolutely a worthy goal. I don’t know Kero, never met him and never interacted with him, but I personally offer my support in his efforts to create for himself a good path forward – whatever that means for him and his loved ones. And I, for whatever it’s worth, offer to him my condolences for what he’s been through. Whether he ran with the wrong crowd or said some things in chats that are themselves indefensible, I hope that he doesn’t let this crush him or, worse yet, turn him into the monster everyone accused him of being. The strong path forward is for him to prove all those spineless, lying, cowardly scumbags who set him up as a sacrifice so they could cover up other crimes that he’s not who they painted him to be – that he’s better than that, and that he grows into the compassionate, caring, loving man waiting within him. Two, I hope that we can ALL be more critical of accusations in the future, and more wary of our eagerness to jump on a bandwagon as a community. Let’s all double-down on our dedication to winnow the facts from the fantasies, the reality from the rumors, and the evil from the errata. There is genuine evil out there. There’s monsters like Randy Pepe or Rainstirs who cause pain for their own pleasure. They are the real targets – the eternal targets – of anyone who rejects torture as a fun pastime. The only way we can keep our lookout for those real monsters is to stop being distracted by hot air and political gibberish that’s falsely painted as being about “stopping zoosadism,” period.

Toggle: Perhaps we can also salvage the good bits of the investigation and start keeping a public record of who’s involved and what’s been done to stop them from abusing animals.

Fausty: To that end, we would love to hear from the community about any real, factual information you’ve gathered so we can try to put together a real picture of what’s going on, without obfuscation and falsehoods. Just as important if not more so, if anything we’ve said today isn’t accurate – if we’ve gotten the facts wrong, big or small – please, correct us! You can do that privately – just tell us – and we’ll honor that request. Or, better yet, correct us and let us air that correction in a future podcast so everyone can benefit from your better knowledge of what happened.

Toggle: Also, please, no links to KiwiFarms — an ironically named troll site that’s not endorsed by actual Kiwis.

Fausty: Oh well, the degenerate Nazi-loving nobodies at Kumquat Farms managed to out themselves as the white supremacist losers everyone already knew them to be, and they’ve picked a fight with LEO in .nz. Good luck with that, morons…

Toggle: Alright, so this has been a rather heavy topic for our lighthearted show. Let’s take off our “serious business zoo” hats and get to what you really came here for — terrible zoo puns.

Fausty: Stay tuned for the good stuff, right after this.


6. Secret Zoo – The Great Zoophile Conspiracy

Announcer: (rad voice) You’re listening to National Enquirer radio: the hottest gossip with the least amount of scrutiny.

Host:Good evening, Enquirers. I’m pleased to welcome back to the show history buff and outraged citizen journalist, Tuck Tubthumper. Tuck, it’s good to see you.

Tuck: (with an excessive amount of malice) It’s good to be back, Jeff.

Jeff: Now, Tuck, you say you have the exclusive scoop on a secret zoophile conspiracy, involving everyone from Hollywood elites to simple corn farmers in the midwest.

Tuck: That’s right, Jeff. What I’ve got is gonna shake the very foundation of our society.

Jeff: That’s pretty intense. Why don’t you walk us through it from the beginning?

Tuck: The beginning is the perfect place to start. Anatomically Modern Humans stemmed from tribes in Africa.

Jeff: Wait a second Tuck, I didn’t mean the beginning of human history!

Tuck: Oh, no, Jeff. This shit goes deep. We need to go all the way back.

Jeff: Seriously?

Tuck: Serious as a tick on a taint! These early humans migrated from Sub-Saharan Africa up into Western Africa and into modern-day Europe, found some cozy places to settle, and set up camp. You’re familiar with the term Cro-Magnon, right Jeff?

Jeff: Uh, kind of. Like cave men?

Tuck: No, Jeff, not cavemen. The Cro-Magnon tribes were the first modern humans, the first humans to resemble what humans look like today. And like humans today, they were prone to… distasteful proclivities.

Jeff: Distasteful proclivities, like what?

Tuck: Oh, Jeff, if only you knew! You think these dirty “zoophiles” today are bad? Wait ’til you hear what these Cro-Magnon humans did.

Jeff: I’m on the edge of my seat, Tuck.

Tuck: So, you’re a modern human. Proud. Tall. Upright. You wield dominion over nature. You make fire, tools, weapons. You create languages. You’re the real deal. Then along comes this… beast, bulky, short, covered in fur. Its young clings to its mother’s furry breast. Make no mistake, Jeff, we’re talking about a wild animal, the likes of which the Cro-Magnon people had never seen before.

Jeff: I’m followin’ you, Tuck.

Tuck: Naturally, when you see a wild animal, what do you do, as a proud human?

Jeff: Hunt it? Eat it?

Tuck: You’d think that, wouldn’t you. But early modern man had other plans. Early modern man decided to fuck it.

Jeff: Wait, are you saying that this was a regular occurrence?

Tuck: It became the gold standard. Cro-Magnon men lined up to fuck these animals, while the women sought out the beast’s thick, stocky cock.

Jeff: Jesus! How could we have never heard of this before?

Tuck: Oh, you might have heard it tossed around without realizing it. You ever heard of Neanderthals, Jeff?

Jeff: Uh… cave men?

Tuck: No, Jeff, not cave men. Hardly men at all! Overgrown monkeys, more like. Humans got it on with neanderthals like zoos get it on with cattle. These beasts that humans were having sex with were animals. Animals!

Jeff: That’s just horrible! Are you really telling me this whole group of humans were raping animals too dumb to consent like it was… natural or normal?

Tuck: They sure were, just like it was the most normal thing in the world. There wasn’t anybody there to tell them how depraved it all was! But there’s and even bigger problem that all this sex with animals nastiness caused – and let’s just be glad that it isn’t one modern zoophiles get to experience.

Jeff: What’s that, Tuck?

Tuck: They didn’t just fuck each other, those humans and their animal “partners”… they made babies, Jeff: they interbred! Tainting our proud, pure, human blood with filthy, disgusting, dumb animal DNA. Neanderthal/Human families popped out babies like there was no tomorrow: little monsters, each and every one a rebuke of the purity of the human race!

Jeff: So you’re saying that humans fucked animals… and these unholy couplings produced babies?

Tuck: Stranger than fiction, let me tell you. Not only did these humans disgrace their sacred racial purity by having carnal relations with those disgusting animals, but they even lived together as if humans were just another kind of animal! They raised their impure children together, creating an entire new generation of corrupted half-humans. If this had happened today, those babies would have been put down, just like we do for the poor animal rape victims of modern-day zoophiles. But this was a whole different world. And this nightmare of tainted love went on for years… centuries, even!

Jeff: Wow, that’s depravity the likes of which I’ve never heard before! Can you imagine if that happened today?

Tuck: But, Jeff, I’m sorry I have to tell you this but… that curse isn’t just in the past. It’s much much worse than that.

Jeff: Really?

Tuck: Oh, Jeff, you sweet, delicate flower of a man. Think about what I just said. Early man’s lust for strange, passionate, exciting furry sex has had untold effects on modern human kind. Just about every one of us humans alive today is the product of interspecies sex: we’re direct descendants of the unspeakable sin of bestiality! Our very genetic heritage is tainted with the carnal love for animals; it’s inside us, it’s part of who we are! We’re mongrels, Jeff. We’ve got that animal DNA in our genes. Our immune systems, Jeff? We got those from Neanderthals.

Jeff: Oh, God, I think I’m gonna be sick.

Tuck: And humans didn’t stop with the Neanderthals, either. Modern man travelled into Asia and fucked those impure, stupid, nonhuman Denisovian animals as well! Those people back then… they really just acted like the “species barrier” was some imaginary thing… like there wasn’t a Beautiful Wall separating humanity from the filthy, disgusting, dumb animals. Those people just lived and loved whomever they chose!

Jeff: Absolutely incredible.

Tuck: And this leads us to the modern zoophile agenda. Just like our ancient Cro-magnon ancestors, these depraved individuals have the drive to have sex with any mammal that wants to do the two-backed beast with a human. They don’t care if they’re shaped exactly like them or not. They don’t care! All they care about is, well I guess they just care about love, Jeff. But not the pure, wholesome love where you make sure everyone stays in line with a healthy dose of social pressure and condemnation. And I bet they’d go on loving even after they know the risk of getting fucked by someone who isn’t human: they’d go on with all that loving even if they knew how our pure human genes got polluted by animal DNA by all those ancient human zoophiles, loving anything that loved them back! They’d corrupt us again, Jeff! Filthy animal sperm tainting our pure human DNA! Can you imagine it? The pure uniformity of humans, spoiled by love. Disgusting… just beyond comprehension….

Jeff: You think that’s possible? Isn’t there a chromosome incompatibility?

Tuck: Look Jeff, I have uncovered something that few of us “Normal” humans know; zoophile scientists have been working on the problem for decades, and they’re close to a solution. I’ve seen the research with my own eyes, Jeff. Haven’t you ever noticed these animal fuckers always insist on their animals being left “in-tact”? They all act like respecting the bodily integrity of their beloveds is some sort of… moral thing, or whatever. But obviously there’s a dark, secret explanation for that kind of weird “respect those you love” cover story. And now I have figured it out: zoos don’t cut pieces off their family members… so that they can harvest their semen and their eggs and use them to make future generations of cross-species children! They’re secretly trying to take over the world with furry, weirdly-sexy, half-human/half-animal children! Jeff, zoos are trying to make furries real – there, I said it. It’s wild stuff, Jeff, let me tell you.

Jeff: That’s mind-blowing. I can hardly believe something like that exists!

Tuck: This conspiracy goes deep, Jeff. Hollywood Zooluminati elites fund these experiments, while zoo farmers provide ample samples to zoo scientists in Silicon Valley. Zoos spread hateful, disturbing propaganda about “mutual respect” and “inter-species symbiosis” and “love transcends” to recruit new test subjects to their cause through Twitter accounts like the Cross Species Alliance, run by one of the most prominent figures in the Zooluminati. I’m not naming names, but it sounds alot like… jousty.

Jeff: Wow, when you said you had a bombshell, you sure delivered, Tuck.

Tuck: All I’m doing is spreading the truth, so we can stop this conspiracy in its tracks before we end up with gross human hybrids – like the whole world is just one big con and they are their fursona, forever – taking over our government and forcing us all to… well, to get violated by big horny half-human studs bent on planting their seed wherever it’ll take root. You know furries, Jeff… just think about a world of nonstop murrs. If we don’t stop the Zooluminati, that’s the future we all face: love, kindness, compassion… and lots of sweaty, happy, musky furry drama. The horror… the horror.

Jeff: Thanks for the scoop, Tuck. Stay vigilant, Enquirers! We’ve got more Enquiries coming up after this!


7. Ask Zooey

Zooey: Welcome back to Ask Zooey, the premiere program for cross-species romantic advice. I’m your host, Zooey Deschanel…’s canine drag queen look alike, Zooey!

Toggle: And I’m her paramour-at-arms, Toggle Rattington III, Esq.

Zooey: Remember, if you’re in need of your own romantic advice, we’ve recently streamlined the process so that it’s easier than ever to have your questions answered on-air before a canned studio audience! Simply message us @AskZooey on Twitter, or send us an anonymous e-mail through the form at with the subject “Ask Zooey!”

Toggle: Much easier than sending a canine strip-o-gram, and a lot less expensive, too!

Zooey: Today’s letter comes from Stressed Stud in Straightsville, and it’s quite the doozy! Rat-servant, will you please do the honors?

Toggle: Your wish is my command. Stressed Stud writes: “Dear Zooey… Look, here’s the deal. I’m a red-blooded, hooves-to-ears, balls-deep stallion: The real deal: a stud. People brag about being hung like me, you know? And I love mares. Nothing gets me goin’ like a mare in heat. Sloppy, sticky, squealy, straight-slammin’ mare-y good fun! I want all the mares, everywhere, in my herd. I got ’em covered – real talk. They love me, I’m Mr. Satisfaction to my lovely ladies, I am! Never even looked at another stallion’s junk before! Why would I? I know he’s not got anything I can’t outdo so no sense wondering. Even if sometimes a guy does wonder, and you know it’s just curiosity is all! Anyway I don’t do that, I’m a stallion’s-stallion – I mean I only bang mares, all the mares all the time.”

Zooey: Hmm… methink the stallion doth protest too much.

Toggle: It’s just that, there’s this new stableboy on the farm. I mean, I noticed him right away since he’s got that, strut, you know… like he’s got it all goin’ on? Well sure he’s not a real guy, he’s just human, but it’s a decent try at real stallion charisma is all. That’s gonna draw your eye, right? Not a stallion, just a human ok? Yeah, well, also when he’s cleaning my stall he always gives me just-right scritches… like, he knows where I’m wishing for a bit of a nice touch. I’m just sayin’ it’s really neat how he learns my needs and knows how to make a guy feel comfortable. So sometimes, I’d just like to, you know… listen, is it really super gay to just sorta, you know… give a special sorta nicker to… just this human guy? And if he notices and wants to maybe do some off-the-books collections, just he and I – it’s not like I decided to do that, because it’s him that makes the first move. Obviously. And all I did was nicker, so not like I was tossing a leg over his shoulder for a quick hump or anything! Anyway, just asking generally. Like I said, love mares, totally not gay. Not into guys – real guys, I mean: stallions – no way! But sometimes when I’m belly-slappin’ I get to maybe thinking about that stable boy’s soft little hooves stroking smoothly on my shaft… caressing my balls right before I cum… his head buried under my tail, his tongue in me… Err so anyway – it… wouldn’t be gay, right? Because, like, it’s not with a real stallion or anything! That’s gay, man! I’m just… he’s only a human so it can’t be gay! I’m just attracted to the little dude’s great personality, is all – but in an “it’s just a human” kind of way, you know? So that’s not gay… is it? What if he makes the first move and I just go along? Not gay, right?”

Zooey: You know, it’s a shame that in this day and age, homosexuality is still so taboo that people are still repressing those kinds of feelings.

Toggle: Well, particularly in the rural United States, there’s still a lot of stigma surrounding homosexual activity. It can get you in trouble even today.

Zooey: There’s also often a supposition that you’re either gay, or you’re straight. But here’s the truth, Stud: Sexuality exists on a spectrum, or even more accurately, in an amorphous cloud of possibilities that’s difficult to define. It’s completely possible to be attracted to mares and still find the stableboy attractive. You can have both! But Stud, what concerns me most is your repression of these feelings in the context of your masculinity. You can be the manly, well-hung stud and nicker at the stable boy. You can even wonder what that other stallion in the stable looks like when he’s hard. Being interested in the same sex doesn’t make you less of a stud, whether its with another stallion or just a human.

Toggle: And it’s also possible that your sexuality varies by species. I’ve always been partial to other guys, in general, but I have to admit to a certain attraction when it comes to mares, just like you have.

Zooey: My advice to you, Stud, is to embrace all the facets of your sexuality, and don’t get hung up on labels like “gay” and “straight.” These labels are only useful to easily convey our sexual preferences to others, but they become uselessly restrictive when we try to confine ourselves into those boxes. A stud’s stud like you, Stud, can please all the mares and be interested in males at the same time without changing who you are fundamentally as a person. Furthermore, don’t let anyone make you feel lesser because of how you feel about stable boys. You’re a proud stallion, and nothing’s going to change that.

Toggle: Thank you for such an honest and vulnerable question, Stud. Best of luck wooing the stable boy of your dreams!

Zooey: That’s all the time we have for today! But remember, if your heart’s full of burning desire and burning questions, drop us a line, and we’ll be happy to help you out!

8. Outro

Toggle: Thanks, friends, for listening to Zooier Than Thou. And sorry for the length of this episode! We’ll try to be a little bit more concise next time!

Fausty: You can subscribe to the podcast via our RSS feed: just point your favorite podcast client at and off you go.

Toggle: Our podcast’s website is, yep, Twitter @ZooierThanThou, and you can follow Zooey’s knotty advice @AskZooey.

Fausty: You can contact me, co-host Fausty, through his website,, or by clicking your heels three times and saying, “I’m zooey and I wanna go home.” Maybe.

Toggle: All nonhumans who helped make this podcast happen promise that they haven’t done sexy things to their helpless human paramours… unless the humans consented in advance.

Fausty: Zooier Than Thou isn’t trademarked and you can share it with anyone you want – it’s provided under the ZPL licensing program.

Toggle: Human males and stallions don’t have bones in their penises – weird, huh? Dogs certainly think so!

Fausty: Be nice to each other. It’s the sexiest, zooiest thing you can do.

Toggle: Hell yeah! Stay Defiant, fellow zoos! We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon!

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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.



“Lobby Time,” “Pixiland,” “Night on the Docks”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Variety Show Tv Theme Music”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

Wanna contact Fausty on BitMessage? 


A Pair of April Fools

Fausty: Hey, everyone! It’s your favorite dogmongler Fausty!

Toggle: And that Mickey-Mouse-sounding motherfucker, Toggle! A-ha!

Fausty: Welcome to this “uniquely special” episode of Zooier Than Thou.

Toggle: Now, normally, this show operates on a monthly basis, but Fausty and I are a pair of April Fools, and the chance for some extra April Foolery was just too much to pass up. Plus the first episode was so much fun…

Fausty: It really couldn’t have got off to a better start, eh? Even our most optimistic scenarios didn’t include thirteen thousand bonus impressions on twitter thanks to the #HateParty hashtag… and the tireless promotional assistance from our best friends forever in the “hate world”… totally serious here: we couldn’t have done it without all your help spreading the word! Best. Launch. Ever.

Toggle: However, we did receive some very constructive feedback, so without further ado, let’s take care of that fake voice of yours, Fausty.

(Fausty’s voice is pitched up)

Fausty: What happened? What’s wrong with my voice?

Toggle: I can’t actually tell if that’s any better.

Fausty: What are you talking about? This is my normal voice. I always sound like this.

Toggle: Keep talking, Fausty, we’ll get this right eventually.

(Fausty’s voice is pitched down)

Fausty: Get what right? What’s that knob you’re turning? Are you mongling my mic, or something?

Toggle: That’s actually kind of sexy. You sound like a stallion.

Fausty: Ahem… I always sound like a stallion!

Toggle: Yeah, like if Barry White was being covered by some white-bread-eating, Canadian stallion.

Fausty: Fair enough… and I think I can live with that.

Toggle: Or, maybe kind of like a moose. Like a Mountie Moose giving a public service announcement ‘aboot’ wildfires.

Fausty: Well… a big, handsome moose can be proper sexy in his own right, I guess. Not really my cup of tea, eh? I’ll stay with the stallion, thanks.

Toggle: Let’s try something else here for a second.

(Fausty’s voice is pitched up at a different timbre)

Fausty: Wait… what’s wrong with the stallion?

Toggle: Actually… you kind of sound like me a little bit, if I had a throat cold.

Fausty: Oh geez, not that! Plus if you keep this mic-mongling up, you’re gonna ruin my carefully-maintained secret persona and… everyone will know who I actually am!

(Fausty’s voice is returned to normal)

Toggle: How’s that?

Fausty: Testing, testing. Ok yeah, that’s way better.

Toggle: It’s amusing that people thought we were using voice modulation on your voice, because we really did consider it. And your voice took surprisingly well to being mongled just now, but we found that we had issues with audio artifacts that rendered the manipulation far too obvious.

Fausty: It being 2019 and all, you’d think that would be pretty easy to get around.

Toggle: I certainly did! But we researched it extensively, and all the free to low-cost plug-ins for voice modulation were just sub-par in quality, and even some of the more expensive options didn’t perform optimally. There weren’t any options in a reasonable price range that actually worked, and there’s bigger priorities than protecting you from doxxxing of your super-secret identity.

Fausty: Sure ok, I know where I stand around here but… what about my voice sounds fake? All that work to change how I sound, and somehow a few clever listeners saw right through it. Damn – and I’d have gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for those meddling kids!

Toggle: I don’t know, it sounded pretty believable to me throughout the show – doesn’t really sound like you at all, so there’s no way anyone’s gonna figure out who you are from your voice.

Fausty: Phew! Because I’m really scared someone’s gonna figure out that I’m actually Douglas ‘pattern juggled’ LeConte-Spink living in Western Pennsylvania. I can’t afford to get doxxxed, right? Gotta keep it on the down-low…

Toggle: Too true. Don’t worry – your secret’s safe with me! Nobody’s gonna crack this mystery, no way no how. Sure, it makes your voice sound all stupid and weird, but it’s worth it to keep your identity under cover.

Fausty: Thanks, Toggle. You’re a real pal! Moving on, let’s take a dip into the mail bag. After the first episode went live – and thanks to the #HateParty fillip – we’ve been getting inbound comms from all over, from Twitter to Telegram to Kumquat Farms — home of the largest collection of Fausty fan fiction anywhere on the intertubes! Also, a quick plug for all the feedback I’ve gotten on my beloved bitmessage! Which reminds me: I’ll also put my bitmessage address in the show notes. It’s great to hear from everyone, whether it’s a quick note hello or a full-bore take on a heavy topic, and we’re honored to be part of the conversation. Oh, and those DMs to the ExposeSolution twitter account from a certain lonely closet-case… man thanks so much, you really made our day! No joke, that’s just about the funniest thing ever. Anyhow, keep ‘em coming – in particular, on the topic of BeastForum, as that’s one we’ll be digging back into next episode, for sure.

Toggle: This episode, our first e-mail comes from Raccoon in Reno. Raccoon writes: “I just wanted to offer my thanks for show. The production was good, some decent laughs, no shortage of puns, but most importantly, some legitimately important information that just doesn’t get passed around enough. Being a zoo is certainly no less complicated than any other sexual orientation, but thanks in no small part to living secret lives, we seem to have some of the lowest support. So it’s good to see efforts to improve this matter. Looking forward to your next show.”

Fausty: Raccoon is quite gracious in their feedback and we’re grateful for that. Also thanks for providing a spot-on summary of what we’re doing here at Zooier Than Thou. This is a time of unprecedented change in the zoo community. Bigotry is on the run, and everyone working for positive, healthy zoo futures is part of a change many of us have worked towards for decades. It’s up to all of us in the community to bring out the best in ourselves, working together – the better we do that, the better we’re able to continue our work as unique advocates for the holistic best interests of our nonhuman colleagues.

Toggle: Honestly, Raccoon, you really are picking up what we’re putting down, and we couldn’t be happier to hear from you. Exposure really is the solution; minority groups gain support through visibility. We’ve seen it happen with other sexual and gender minority communities, and since we do share a common history of Biblical bigotry with homosexuality, we could do well to take a page out of their book. And let’s be honest, that bigotry has been historically unkind to our animal companions. We do well to remind people where we stand when it comes to the welfare of our four-legged partners.

Fausty: Supporting each other, our community, and especially our nonhuman peers is what it’s all about – that’s the foundation on which Zooier Than Thou has been built, right from the start.

Toggle: What other kind of feedback have you personally received so far, Fausty?

Fausty: Well, the best part for me is how diverse it’s been so far – applause, sharp criticism, vague suggestions, detailed recommendations. Overall, I don’t think there’s a single favorite, for me; what’s so inspiring is just the broad swath of conversation the podcast has already helped to encourage.

Toggle: I think my favorite piece of feedback so far was, “Yeah, it was a bit silly for me, but good job.”

Fausty: Yah, fair enough on that – silly, with a bit of good work mixed in along the way.

Toggle: I also had several people tell me that the last part of the advice segment was both arousing AND informative. Specifically both, not just one or the other.

Fausty: Now, don’t tell anyone… but I’m a male, and I haven’t met any fellow males in my life who hate blowjobs… (Toggle looks like he might disagree.) at least if they’re done right, eh?

Toggle: Yeah, OK, if they’re done right.

Fausty: And, you know, ask a hundred adult males if they’d rather receive a gentle, loving, consensual, pleasurable blowjob from a trusted partner… or have their testicles cut off against their will and live the rest of their life suffering the health consequences of that violent genital mutilation… so far I haven’t found anyone who chooses the castration option. It’s almost like one is actually abusive and one isn’t… but anyhow, yes, advice on how to share physical intimacy with a loving, adult partner is a good thing – not that anyone would question such an obvious statement – and that segment seems to have been particularly well-received. Seems like blowjobs are, indeed, a popular topic of discussion…

Toggle: It certainly seems to come up in non-zoo “animal porn” a fair amount.

Fausty: Oh, man, does it ever. Remember that Hollywood movie: Porndogs: The Adventures of Sadie? Lots of allusions to canine blowjobs in that one – which was super-creepy since the boys supposedly receiving them were all visibly castrated. I can’t think of a better example of just how broken our society’s view of companion species is than a movie that features anatomically-impossible blowjobs given to victims of non-consensual genital mutilation. That’s well beyond creepy, into downright sad…

Toggle: Well at least everyone can agree that tongue-in-cheek podcast sex advice that doesn’t involve violence and amputation is good, clean fun! And unlike South Park, our dog blowjob segments won’t ever get stuck at the “red rocket” stage.

Fausty: Not to blow off a great topic of discussion… but what else is on the agenda today?

Toggle: Well, any production has its bloopers, so we thought we’d share a couple of them with you as a parting gift, since it’s April Fools Day.

Fausty: So am I correct in predicting that “bloopers” here is synonymous with “Toggle laughing his ass off hysterically?”

Toggle: What can I say? I laugh a lot! Our first blooper features our good friend Julia, doing her worst Barbara Walters impression, as far as I can tell. And the second one is just really corny.

Fausty: Enjoy!


Ask Zooey Blooper

Host 1: There’s a big buck that’s been fa–

(laughter, followed by another attempt)

Host 1: There’s a big buck I’ve been fucking.


Host 1: Whew, we’ve got this. Third time’s a charm.

Host 2: Try that again.


Outro Blooper

Toggle: Special thanks, too, to the Cross Species Alliance and the Can’t Be Corn — “Can’t be Corn.”


Fausty: I like that project. That’s an interesting one. “Can’t be corn!” S’a good satire account. Just picture of corn. Nothing but corn. Corn cobs. Corn on the cob. Corn plants. Just corn, corn, and more corn! And then we can just start filing — making reports on the account, cuz, you know, Twitter’s not the right place for corn like that. 

Toggle: Ok, I’ve got it back under control. (He doesn’t.)

Fausty: Can’t be corn! I’m changing it in my text, right there.

Toggle: (Takes a deep breath.) OK, centered. We’re gonna get back to this.



Fausty: Before we go tonite, friends, we’d like to take a break from the lulz to say a few words about something that couldn’t be less funny.

Toggle: Right there with you, Fausty.

Fausty: Recently, in New Zealand, the dark stain of bigotry and hatred came to a head and took the lives of fifty peaceful citizens at prayer. This terroristic attack has truly shocked the world’s conscience, and we humbly offer here our deepest condolences to the victims and their families. Alike or different, of the faith or not, we are all here together – and the sickness of supremacist, neo-Nazi ideology has no place in the world we share. Namaste.

Toggle: I’m not a very eloquent speaker when it comes to things like this. Words seem so empty in the face of displays of genuine, human evil. We can take an easy moral position and pat ourselves on the back, but our actions really define where we stand. It’s truly amazing to see how the indomitable Kiwi spirit is facing this crisis. As an American, seeing their government, their private sector companies, and their whole population coming together as one and working toward real solutions to the problems that have been thrust upon them is moving beyond expression. I think that if I were among those faced with this tragedy, nothing would bring me more solace than knowing that what happened to me wouldn’t happen to anyone else. I can’t give anything more valuable than that. I’m… not sure how to end this, but… let’s end with hope that tomorrow is going to be better.

Fausty: Well spoken, my friend. Well spoken. And that’s a great note on which to end this “mini stallion” episode of Zooier Than Thou.

Toggle: Join us next time, when we’ll be tackling a topic so controversial, so over-the-line, so utterly beyond-the-pale that we might even make some zoos upset.

Fausty: Making zoos upset? What could possibly be that controversial? Well, looks like you’ll just have to keep an eye on the moon — and your RSS feed — for the next episode of Zooier Than Thou.

Toggle: Stay Defiant, fellow zoos! We’ll see you next time!

Fausty: Same zoo time, same zoo channel. Thanks for sharing your time with us. Stay healthy and proud, you glorious zoo nation!

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Concept: Fausty

Execution: Toggle

Artists wish to go uncredited, but this wouldn’t be the same without their work!

Special Thanks goes out to all our cast and crew for putting this together in such a short amount of time! You are all incredible!

Thanks to our friends and loved ones for putting up with us being shut up in a studio recording, or stuck in meetings writing, or slaving into the wee hours of the morning on a coffee-fueled work binge.



“Crypto,” “Happy Happy Game Show,” “Lobby Time”
Kevin MacLeod (
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

“Afternoon Talk Show Tv Theme Music,” “Variety Show Tv Theme Music”
Radio City, from the album “Old Time TV Music”

“Ranchera” provided by TMSC. 🌟Free royalty-free music downloaded from the YouTube channel Tumúsicasincopyright.

Sound FX largely provided by and

Cold Open: Secret Zoo

Narrator: (voice obscured and pitch shifted down) Today marks the beginning of something new. This podcast will seek to set right all the wrongs perpetrated by humans against animal kind, and to hold those who would hurt our animal brethren accountable. We do our work from the shadows to protect ourselves and our loved ones, but we will expose those who self-identify as “zoophiles,” “cross-species enthusiasts,” and the like. For too long, humankind has regarded animals as objects to be manipulated for their own personal satisfaction, things without thoughts and feelings who can’t feel pain or pleasure. We will give voice to those animals so they can no longer be ignored.

The first zoophile to be exposed is a household name in the fantasy community. He’s even appeared in movies, on television, and has had roles in video games. This zoophile is…


(mood changes. Celebratory music plays, and a game-show-esque announcer takes over)

Announcer: The Lord of Horses himself, Shadowfax!

(horse whinny)

Announcer: That’s right! You know him as Gandalf the White’s trusty steed, who fought alongside the wizard during the Siege of Gondor. Before meeting his life partner, it is said that Shadowfax could not be tamed by any man. We caught up with Shadowfax just as he was leaving for Valinor.

Shadowfax: (recorded previously) ‘tis true, I believed no man worthy of my saddle, for they prized me naught but for what they could take from me. When Gandalf approached me, I viewed him with the same disregard. That I let him mount me was no small gesture. But he proved a kind lover, in tune with my wild heart, a force of nature befitting of the Mearas. He listened to my desires, and he pleasured me in ways no mare ever could.

Interviewer: But don’t you know, sex between animals and humans is abuse!

Shadowfax: Balderdash! I’ve never hurt Gandalf! My girth be thicker than an archer’s drawing arm, but Gandalf the White is more than capable and willing to handle me at full mast. Do you take him for a milksop? A weanling? A babe incapable of making his own decisions? Do you doubt the ability of the Maia to handle my beastial form? That one would suggest I would abuse the one man I’ve come to love is offensive, and I’ll have no more talk of it.

Announcer: There you have it, folks, straight from the horse’s mouth! Stay tuned for more zooey adventures, here on Zooier Than Thou!


Episode 1: The Exposure Solution

Fausty: Hey there, friends & colleagues! Welcome to the premiere episode of Zooier Than Thou! I’m Fausty!

Toggle: And I’m Toggle!

Fausty: And we’ll be your chaperones for this evening!

Toggle: Now, I know what you’re thinking. “Not another zoo podcast.”

Fausty: Yes, there are a metric fuckton out there, we know that. There’s oceans of them, and seems like there’s more everyday.

Toggle: But at the end of the day, zoo’s gotta zoo, and hopefully we can make this one a gem that stands out against all that coal.

Fausty: So how does this work, exactly?

Toggle: Well, we kind of banter back and forth a bit, then we give a shout out to our sponsors.

Fausty: Wow, we have sponsors?

Toggle: Sure do. Of course, they’re expecting us to break all kinds of news & events. If we turn out to be just another copycat zoo podcast, it’ll probably get really lonely here sponsor-wise, so we have a lot to live up to.

Fausty: Fair enough. So, here’s the deal. Yes, there are a bunch of zoo podcasts that wax gravely about issues central to the zoo community. That’s all well and good, but we wanted to do something a little different with our podcast. I think sometimes we get so bogged down by the politics of the zoo world that we forget that being “people like us” is more than just saving the world… there is a lighter side.

Toggle: Yeah! So we’re getting in touch with our inner animals — or are we getting touched by our inner animals?

Fausty: Well, what I’d say is, we’re here to ask the important questions, such as, “Why does Nick Wilde wear clothes?”

Toggle: “How come ducks only have to wear a shirt, but mice only have to wear pants?”

Fausty: “Is Disney’s Beauty and the Beast really just an excuse to apply Rule 34?”

Toggle: Honestly, Disney’s creepy view of nonhumans might be at the root of a lot of society’s problems.

Fausty: That’s probably true. S’a bit of a heavy topic maybe for another day. However, speaking of festering social problems, let’s talk a bit about BeastForum.

Toggle: Oh, yes. I remember in college, a friend of mine was showing off his shiny new Gmail account, and I couldn’t help but notice he had a notification for a new reply on a BeastForum thread.

Fausty: Those days are now officially behind us. BeastForum is no more!

Toggle: Goodbye and good riddance, as far as I’m concerned.

Fausty: Look, as far as I’m concerned, that whole mess is exactly what happens when non-zoos try to “monetize” cross-species erotica: it’s an unmitigated disaster. Full disclosure: I have gone toe-to-toe with the assholes running BeastForum for nearly twenty years. They have shown a total disregard not only for non-humans, but also for the zoo community. I’ve done my best for years to demonetize that site and to remove their ability to support themselves financially. Many of us did, frankly, and it looks like it paid off. Though really, I haven’t been involved in that effort for many years, I still have to say, score one for the good guys, eh?

Toggle: Yeah! And, you know, honestly, the idea of paying to download pieces of movies and having to put them back together like jigsaw puzzles was fucking ridiculous. People were putting up media freely, and they shoved it behind a paywall. Not unique to the forum, either. GayBeast, one of their affiliated sites, frequently took free videos – and even furry animations distributed on FurAffinity – and put them behind a paywall. It was fucking ludicrous.

Fausty: Oh, yeah, BeastForum resold zoo materials across just about every one of their crumbling, low-rent, garbage-ass, paid porn sites… it really ended up happening to all of us sooner or later; if you were around in the community, it was like a rite of passage to find at some point you had your own dedicated page on one of their for-pay websites. Not something any of us really wanted. In the early days, I gotta admit, BeastForum hated me so much that they would post fake comments I had made on the forum, ostensibly written by me – but they were so stupid about it at one point that they were posting fake stuff allegedly written by me while I was actually in federal prison. Which is a good alibi when you think about it. I mean, it is hard to post on a zoo forum from federal prison, folks, I can tell you that firsthand. Not only that, but those obnoxious monsters were actively encouraging posts of materials that were violent, abusive, non-consensual — just horrible — and they profited from it every step of the way. It was really a disgusting parasite on our community & a blot on the internet. As hard as it is to imagine something being a blot on the internet, BeastForum certainly was. I have to say I’m proud of the role that I played, especially early-on, in trying to bring that site back down to earth, and to shut it down for good, and I’m glad to see that it’s gone.

Toggle: You know, I once contacted them about a privacy matter on GayBeast, and they basically told me, “Sorry, asshole, your privacy doesn’t matter. We don’t give a shit about protecting zoos, and your public profiles get us hits on Google.” No deleting accounts, because it took from their bottom line. Fuck ‘em.

Fausty: Well, you know, at this point, those guys can all go get jobs bagging groceries – or whatever the hell it is that wannabe-zoos like them do when their gravy train gets shut down. Who knows? I don’t really know where they go from here. I will say there is word that what’s likely to replace them them my be both more interesting & and vastly more healthy than the current BeastForum that is shut down… we may have more news on that later on in the show. We’ll see!

Toggle: Alright! Well, if you have your own BeastForum horror stories, we’d love to hear them. Feel free to drop us a line using the form on the website at!

Fausty: Don’t even need to disclose and e-mail address, so speak openly if you so choose!

Toggle: Alright, so, what else do you wanna talk about? We’ve got like 2 more minutes to kill.

Fausty: Well, let’s talk a bit about the theme for today’s podcast: The Exposure Solution.

Toggle: Yeah, so we’re already seeing the phones light up with complaints that we “outed” Shadowfax as a zoo. That was predictable…

Fausty: It was a bold decision we made, but we DID get his express permission to air his orientation on our podcast, and I can’t say that there’s been any harm done, there. Don’t worry, folks. I literally wrote the Zoo Community Pledge more than a decade ago, specifically rejecting the outing of zoos. I am the last person on the planet who is going to out a zoo without their permission.

Toggle: With any luck, some of you are here because you heard about us from our unwitting supporters who participated in the Hate Party campaign.

Fausty: Indeed. I just wanna give a big thanks to all the anti-zoo bigots who have help to promote and to encourage others to take a look at our podcast. I have to say that was totally unintentional! Very sorry about the confusion, but boy, we sure do appreciate it all the same!

Toggle: I hope you were reading between the lines, because every message in those Hate Party tweets was absolutely true.

Fausty: Good point Toggle – there were no lies in that messaging whatsoever, and that does matter to us here at Zooier Than Thou. In fact, I would say the truth matters a great deal, and it always will. In fact, on of the truths we’re going to explore on the podcast is how there’s always this funny assumption when we talk about zoos that the question is only about humans and our prejudices against one another. Zoos, we’ve always known better, though: it’s not about the humans, it’s about everyone. So with this podcast, we’re all about celebrating primarily the nonhuman side of things: their agency, their wisdom, their interests, and above all else, their well-being of the nonhumans that share our lives. They deserve their own voice – and more than that, they deserve to have their agency & adulthood respected & embraced.

Toggle: So true. And treating animals as if they have no desires, no free will, no autonomy: it’s dishonestly like that which allows us to tolerate heinous factory farm practices, to imprison and torture hundreds of millions of our sentient brethren —

Fausty: — That, and more… To castrate and mutilate them – to literally cut the adult parts off of them, purely non-consensual violence towards victims who are completely unable to defend their own bodies from these attacks. All of these terrible, terrible things we do to other species serve to reinforce an evil world view of animals as sexless, powerless, childish, forever-enslaved “lower” beings. Everything about that is just… awful – it really reflects the worst of humanity’s self-centered, solipsistic, self-important bullshit. But as zoos, we know better, don’t we, Toggle?

Toggle: Right, Fausty. When you see people out their touting hate speech against zoophiles, it’s because we upset the order of things.

Fausty: Absolutely true. We, as zoos, challenge the assumed separation of humans from everyone else who shares residency on this planet with us – we undermine that imaginary distancing by truly and genuinely embracing our nonhuman colleagues as equals, as friends, as partners. By our very existence, zoos destroy the false placement of humans as separate or “above” everybody else. Normals may think they’re better than mere “animals?” Well, sorry – zoos know better than all that!

Toggle: Wow, Fausty… you really just had a ‘zooier than thou’ moment there, didn’t you!

Fausty: Indeed, I did! It happens! Look, I’m old, I’m grey, and I’m also dying of cancer – so I’m entitled to a little bit of ‘zooier’ now and again, aren’t I?

Toggle: Can’t argue with that! So to all you haters out there, thanks for the exposure! Bigotry and hatred are so passé, and this podcast is ready to counter-attack with a strategic deployment of irreverent, zooey humor and terrible, zooey puns.

Fausty: Puns are a most valuable weapon against bigotry. We will literally pun the zoophobes into abject submission!

Toggle: So sit back and relax, fellow zoos. There’s more Zooier Than Thou comin’ right up after this!


This Episode’s Sponsors

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And finally:

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Dear Zooey, Act 1

Host 1: Welcome back to the show. We’ve had a lot of great questions from our audience, but now we’d like to take some time to answer questions from our listeners at home. Remember, if you’d like to have your questions featured on our show, simply handwrite a letter and have it delivered as a canine strip-o-gram, or if you’re opposable-thumb-challenged, bleat into a can attached to a cell phone tower, and we’ll be honored to answer your tawdriest inquiries.

Host 2: The tawdrier the better. Those give us the greatest ratings boosts.

Host 1: Too true. Our first letter today comes from Nutty in Nova Scotia. Nutty writes: “Dear Zooey, I love my human dearly, and recently, we’ve decided to take that to the next level. But I’ve discovered he has a very strange fetish for peanut butter that I simply don’t understand. I try to indulge him, but the peanut butter gets stuck to my gums, and I end up licking my teeth more than I’m licking his junk. And what’s worse: by the time I finish finally cleaning it off of him, he’s slathered even more on his balls! I want to make my human happy, but I don’t know how much longer I can stand the taste of peanuts. What should I do?”

Host 2: Ah, yes, peanut butter is a common fetish for humans.

Host 1: Indeed, you hear about it in movies and on TV all the time.

Host 2: Well, Nutty, it might seem awkward, but perhaps it’s best to sit your human down and have an honest talk about his peanut butter fetish. Often, humans believe that their partners love the taste, and by continuing to indulge him by licking it off, you’re accidentally reinforcing this expectation. When you see him pull out the jar, voice your disapproval, and refuse to clean him off. Find ways to spontaneously initiate sexual play in situations where peanut butter is out of reach. Humans can be slow to understand, but if you’re patient, you can use the principles of operant conditioning to train your human to not use peanut butter. Don’t be afraid to give him a “click” with your clicker when he gets it right – he’ll figure it out, eventually!

Host 1: That is very sound advice we can all keep in mind. Thank you for your question, Nutty.

Host 2: Our next question comes from Sheepless in Seattle. Sheepless writes: “Dear Zooey, I recently moved to the big city to find a job, but everyday, little things remind me of my ewe back home. The feel of a wool sweater on these cold, foggy days, or a passing scent that reminds me of the country. I miss her something fierce, but job opportunities are scarce out in the boondocks. What should I do?”

Host 1: Long distance relationships can be very difficult.

Host 2: Indeed they can.

Host 1: Sheepless, I have some very practical advice for you. Move back to the countryside and be with your ewe. In today’s high speed society, there’s no reason to be tied to a city to find work in the tech industry. More and more, companies are offering work-from-home opportunities that you can take advantage of. Long distance relationships can be especially hard on your animal companions; for them, e-mails from far away, or even phone calls every day don’t cut it. They require affection in-person even more than humans do. You owe it to your relationship to go back to the farm and invest in high-speed internet. Love waits for no man — or ewe! Get to it!

Host 2: Wow, I couldn’t have put that better myself. Thanks so much for that question, Sheepless. We’ve got high hopes for your relationship!

Host 1: This next letter is from Deerly in Duluth. She writes, “Deer Zooey — I mean, Dear Zooey.”

Host 2: Oh, I see, she misspelled dear the first time.

Host 1:Yes. “Dear Zooey. I live in a very wooded area. The forest is very deer to me, and I spend a lot of time wandering the woods on the weekend. There’s a big Buck that I’ve been fawning over for some time. Every time I see him, I go doe-eyed, and my knees practically buckle under me. He’s staggeringly beautiful, to be perfectly honest, but I’m too faint of hart to approach him directly. I’m not sure about the R.O.E. for something like this. How do I confess my love?”

Host 2: This is a great question, Deerly. You know, twenty years ago, all the textbooks would have said, “Wait until rutting season and hope he notices you amongst all the other winsome, nubile lady-suitors.”

Host 1: But times have really changed.

Host 2: Indeed they have! And the modern way puts the politics of the herd on a post-#MeToo even footing — no more sexist stereotypes that say, “The one with the antlers makes the first move.” And what’s more, the millennial stag appreciates a woman who has the confidence to approach first. Steel your hart, Deerly, the ball is completely in your court!

Host 1: And remember, no buck worth your buck will look down on your for stepping out of traditional gender roles. But remember his pride, ladies. If you’re asking him out for a dinner date, offer to split the tab. Paying the whole check could dent his ego, while forcing him to hoof the bill on a date you set up is bad manners.

Host 2: Above all, Deerly, remember that you’re worth it. If you can convey a sense of self-confidence, any hart will take notice, but you need to believe it yourself.

Host 1: Best of luck bagging a price buck, Deerly. We’ll be right back after a message from our sponsors.

(Cut to commercial)


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Dear Zooey, Act 2

Host 2: And we’re back! If you’re just joining us, we’ve been answering questions from our viewers at home.

Host 1: Remember, if you want your letters to be featured on our show, all you need is a little chicken wire, a weather balloon, and a short-range broadcast satellite, and we’ll happily answer any question we pick up on the radio waves.

Host 2: Here’s a letter from Tiny in Toronto. Tiny writes, “Dear Zooey. There’s a mare I’ve had a thing with for a while now, but I can’t help but notice when we’re out, she’s always eyeing the stallions in the pasture. I know what she’s thinking, and it makes me feel inadequate. I really want to stand out so her eyes are always on me. What can I do to really impress my mare?”

Host 1: This is a common problem for a lot of guys.

Host 2: Gents, remember there’s a reason why AVs for stallions come in sizes up to 24 inches.

Host 1: This is why it’s important to play to your strengths; don’t compete with the stallion at a game you can’t hope to win. Here are some very practical ways you can leave a great impression on your galloping gal.

Host 2: It’s always a great idea to have a change of pace. Buy her a new halter – it’s a small thing, but it helps to show that you care. Symbols of your love matter!

Host 1: When grooming, spend a little extra time brushing her hair, and make pleasant conversation. Ask her how her day went. Show interest in her day-to-day life. To you, she may be an intimidating sex queen, but she’s also just an everyday gal with everyday problems. Don’t let her charisma drown out your ability to imagine yourself as an equal to her – and that might sound crazy! She’s beautiful, and graceful, and full of mysterious equine wisdom, but you have to make that image real in your mind so she can see you as more than, well, a quick service-station fling.

Host 2: Splurge a little on a nice, new blanket. – something that really sets off her mane, brings out her mare-y curves, and makes her feel like the lady she most certainly is. But if she asks if it makes her look fat—

Host 1&2: (in tandem) DO NOT ANSWER.

Host 1: The only good response to that question is, “You always look beautiful no matter what you wear.”

Host 2: Great advice. Now, when it comes to being intimate, remember, play to your strengths. Stallions have girth, length, and power on you, and those shortcomings make it all the more important to remember that sex with you is all about her! Take your time – stallions just can’t deliver that slow-and-steady grind your mare craves. Your stamina and patience will help you stand out. And if you really want to make an impression, spend some time going down on your ladyfriend. No stallion does oral sex well, and that’s a place where you can really set yourself apart from the hoofed competition! Celebrate her as a goddess with your oral worship and she’ll think of you as more than just a food-delivery mechanism.

Host 1: Don’t be shy about it, either; follow her lead, take your time, and she’ll let you know when you’re spot-on perfect with your oral attentions.

Host 2: The amount of time you spend making her feel special is what’s going to set you apart from any run-of-the-mill stallion. Hit-it-and-done might as well be the stallion’s hookup mantra – sure, they have the equipment to get away with that kind of selfish machismo, but you’ve got your own tools & you’ve gotta be smart about using them. You’re always gonna feel second-rate in her presence – that’s just a fact of nature. Rise to the challenge, Tiny, and do your best to be her equal. You’ve got this!

Host 1: That’s some really useful advice! I hope you guys out there took good notes! Here’s our last letter of the day. This one’s from Studly in Strausberg.

Host 2: Oh! A listener from across the pond!

Host 1: Always great to hear from our German listeners. Studly writes, “Dear Zooey. I’ve been dating a real hunk of a human for about two months now. The sex is great; he’s got a real tight ass that really squeezes in all the right ways, and he’s great company during long ties. But he gives the absolute worst blowjobs I’ve ever had in my life. I love him to death, don’t get me wrong, but the moment he goes down on me, I completely lose interest in sex. He’s really eager, though, and seems to love getting a taste, but he doesn’t seem to learn no matter how many times we try. What should I do?”

Host 2: Wow, if I could count the number of times I’ve gotten a bad blowjob.

Host 1: None from me, I hope! (laughs)

Host 2: (chuckling) No, indeed. To his credit, my co-host gives great post-show head. But Studly, I hope your two-legged paramour is listening right now, because I’m about to give him some advice that could save your relationship. And I hope you’re listening out there, dog-lovers, because this is need-to-know information. Here’s the tip: “Hold the sheath—“

Host 1&2: (in tandem) “—Not the shaft.”

Host 2: I cannot express enough how important this is.

Host 1: And it’s something so many people get wrong. Remember, stud dogs don’t have a setup with thick, rugged skin on their members. In fact, his skin when he’s erect is paper-thin, and so, so sensitive. It’s not designed for grabbing or rubbing – that’s a 2-legger thing, folks! You’ve gotta think of his shaft as a delicate, finely-wrought musical instrument: careful, careful, careful!

Host 2: For the same reason, you really have to watch your teeth. If you think it hurts as a human, imagine how your canine companion feels when your over-eager attentions result in teeth meeting that delicate shaft skin!

Host 1: And this is the reason I also stress that deep throating your canine companion should not be the goal. Unless he’s small all around, it’s not gonna work, and it’s gonna be anything but fun for him when you try. Save the tie for the other end – you’re not trying to knot your face, fellas!

Host 2: Heavens, no! Putting aside the obvious issue of getting the knot into your mouth without biting down, just because you get something in doesn’t mean it’s going to come back out. That could be a world of pain for both you and your patient pooch.

Host 1: That said, you don’t want to let your boyfriend’s cock dry out in the open air. That can lead to pain when his dick finally slides back into his sheath. Keep this in mind, and give that shaft a careful spit shine: all tongue, no teeth. Kisses are perfect for this kind of gentle lovin’ – kisses up the shaft, kisses on his tip – very sensitive! – and kisses especially down at the bottom & back of his knot — he’ll love those in particular! Your job when he’s erect and mid-orgasm is to keep him well-lubed, protected from bumps or bruises, and properly worshipped with sweet, loving smooches. Once you master the basics, there are advanced techniques that bring out best-in-class pleasure for your receptive stud… but we’ll save those tricks for later so you can concentrate on the foundation.

Host 2: So, to reiterate:

Host 1&2: (in tandem) Hold the sheath, not the shaft.

Host 2: Keep a nice, tight grip on him throughout the blowjob – always behind his knot, always steady pressure around his entire girth, and always make sure he’s well-lubed and moist. And always, always be gentle with your canine companion’s cock. Lips, kisses, and gentle suction along the shaft, and be sure to give that knot a loving smooch every once in a while. Follow this advice, and you’re guaranteed to deliver an orgasm your four-legged boyfriend won’t soon forget.

Host 1: That’s what it’s all about, folks: bring him happiness & pleasure, and he’ll never regret turning aside the latest bitch-in-heat for time spent in your two-legged company.

Host 2 Your love for him is what energizes your intimate time with him; don’t just go through the motions of giving him pleasure — give him all the pleasure he ever imagined, and then some!

Host 1: I hope you were taking notes! That’s all the time we have for today. Thanks for tuning in!

Host 2: We’ll see you next time, same zoo time, same zoo channel!



Fausty: Well, that’s our show for today folks!

Toggle: Hopefully you’ve had as much fun listening as we had making it!

Fausty: We’d like to give a huge shout out to our cast and crew. You guys made this all possible to pull together. We never would have gotten this off the ground without your help!

Toggle: Special thanks to the Cross Species Alliance and the Can’t Be Porn project for giving us a bit of a social media boost!

Fausty: Also, a somewhat unconventional shout out to Keven MacLeod at for making royalty-free music for podcasts, YouTube channels, and media projects. Our deepest respect for your contributions and for your generosity, Mr. MacLeod.

Toggle: If you haven’t already done it, subscribe to our RSS feed, and follow our twitter accounts, @ZooierThanThou and @AskZooey. Currently, @ExposeSolution is still out there, and we’ll be transferring our main account there, so give that a follow as well.

Fausty: Finally, a special thanks from all of us here at the podcast to everyone who played along with the Hate Party game! Thanks for playing, folks! You guys know that we’ve got nothing but love for all of you, right? Also, don’t forget to respond to our question from the beginning of the show! If you do have any experiences with the dumpster fire that was BeastForum, we’d lover to hear about it! Send us a message using the form on our website,, or direct message at one of the twitter accounts, and we’ll get back in touch. We do respect your privacy, of course, but as always, take care in what you share!

Toggle: Stay Defiant, zoos! We’ll see you next time you feel like howling at the moon!

Fausty: Thanks for listening, folks!

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